Yes, we can.

[innerSpaceman]

I've only seen the loop of Reverand White's "greatest hits" - so maybe I've missed something.

What's so "extreme" about them? I won't argue they are strong, but I hardly think they are extreme.

Decrying nuclear weapons attacks on Japanese civilians. How is that an extreme position? Sure, there may have been tactical and strategic reasons. Does that make the experience of the Japanese at our hands any less horrific? Or is it just a simple truth that it was a horrific thing?

Noting it was the very people we supported then abandoned in Afghanistan who then attacked on 9/11. How is that extreme? It's simple fact.



Perhaps it's not completely cool to rave "God Damn America" as an ironic twist on God Bless America, but if you're reasonably feeling the anger in contemplating the above two incidents, it is really that Oh-My-Christing extreme?








I, for one, don't think so.

[Kevy Baby]

Again, I am not siding with the argument: I believe for the most part that the Reverend Wright issue is, well, a NON issue. However, remarks made by Wright HAVE been inflammatory (the ones in bold are ones that I personally have a problem with):

• September 2001: “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”
• September 2001: “We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki. And we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.”
• September 2001: “We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because of stuff we have done overseas is now brought back into our own backyard. America is chickens coming home to roost.”
• April 2003: “The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes three-strike laws and wants them to sing God Bless America. No! No No! God damn America … for killing innocent people. God damn America for threatening citizens as less than humans. God damn America as long as she tries to act like she is God and supreme.” (I disagree with the "Government is out to get the black man" mentality. It is racist to make such accusations. KB)
• December 2007: “Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people. Hillary would never know that.” (Racist - KB)
• December 2007: “Hillary ain’t never been called a [n!gger]. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person.”
• Jan. 13, 2008: “Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain’t! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty.” (Presumably by "us" he again refers to "the black man" and this is once again, racist - KB)
• “Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college. (Of little statistical relevance - KB) … Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run.”
• “We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers. … We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. … We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. … We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means.
• And … And … And! God! Has got! To be sick! Of this [sh!t]!”

Source

[Alex]

I can't really buy into the argument that it is both racist to be treated as an inferior segment of society and to act as if you're being treated as an inferior segment of society.

If the former is happening, and while it may not happen to the great extent of the past, it is certainly still happening then the latter just seems like common sense.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Alex

I can't really buy into the argument that it is both racist to be treated as an inferior segment of society and to act as if you're being treated as an inferior segment of society.

If the former is happening, and while it may not happen to the great extent of the past, it is certainly still happening then the latter just seems like common sense.

To me, it is racist to say that the entire government treats all black men in a racist manner.

It is racist to assert that all white people hate/want to beat down/etc. all black people.

Yes, there are (white) racist individuals in this world - I am not naive. But when a black man makes an assertion about all non-black people, how is that not racist? That is (IMO) what Rev. Wright is preaching. Granted, I have heard worse (Farrakhan), but this is what I see.

[SacTown Chronic]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what racism is, Kevin. Furthermore, nowhere in those quotes you provided does Rev. Wright assert that all white people desire to do anything to all black people.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, i didn't see that All White People stuff. Where?


Though it did clear up certain misunderstandings I had concerning his comments ... so thanks for posting them, Kevy.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what racism is, Kevin.

What word would you use? Governmentist? Perhaps "reverse discrimination" is more palatable. It is hypocritical to accuse an entire body (in this case "Government") of being against an entire race.

Do you have a problem that I accuse a black man of being racist? I have never seen a definition that says that racism can only be applied towards any one racial group. By using a combination of 1) accusing the government of being all white, and 2) saying the government is against "people of color" is, well, racism.

So to answer your question that has now come up of "but he never said that the government was all white people", I remind you of this statement by Wright:

“The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”

"The government ... against people of color." In other words: the white people are doing this to the black people.

Originally Posted by dictionary.reference.com

rac·ism –noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

Furthermore, nowhere in those quotes you provided does Rev. Wright assert that all white people desire to do anything to all black people.

I never said "all" and I never meant to imply it.

If you disagree that he implies the government is (predominantly) white, then the argument ends there and we disagree.

But just because I use the term "racism" against a black man, don't say I have a "fundamental misunderstanding of what racism is." I know what it means and I chose to not limit its usage.



I hate carrying on this debate in this thread as it is not about Barrack any more (sorry CP).

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I find this amazing, really.

Obama's charitable donations



Even with increases in their giving in the next couple of years, they still only got up to about 5% charitable giving on over 2.6 million in income.

I don't begrudge them their wealth in the least. I'd love to make that much. But less than 1% on 1.2 million dollars in income? That's lame. Sorry, but for a couple to make that much and give so little is lame.

This is why we need big government and high taxes, becasue no one really wants to give to charity anyway

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Do you have a problem that I accuse a black man of being racist?

No.

I have never seen a definition that says that racism can only be applied towards any one racial group.

Of course not.

I never said "all" and I never meant to imply it.

Originally Posted by Kevin explaining racism

It is racist to assert that all white people hate/want to beat down/etc. all black people.

But just because I use the term "racism" against a black man...

I haven't said that. Or anything approaching that. Or anything on the same fvcking planet as that. Reverand Wright's race has nothing to do with my assertion that you do not understand racism.


Let's try this another way:

Check those three definitions of racism you provided against the Wright quotes you provided and see if you have a winner.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

This is why we need big government and high taxes, becasue no one really wants to give to charity anyway

Or perhaps it is because the taxes are so high no one has that much to give?