The Oscars

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Wow, if you can't stop your political views from tainting a silly comedy, I seriously think you might consider lightening up. Just because the Kosher Fast Food Joint was managed a little more obnoxiously than the Palestinian Flafel Joint does not make West Bank Story an anti-semetic piece of Israeli-hating propaganda.

Did you listen to the acceptance speech? The movie was a musical comedy spoof designed to promote peace. Get a grip.

Sorry, that was not based on her post ... but rather on our conversation after the screenings.

Well, I didn't say that I hated the short, in fact I laughed just as much as you did. And I said as much the night of. Doesn't mean I thought it deserved to win. And I NEVER said it was "an anti-semetic piece of Israeli-hating propaganda." Just because he said it was "about peace" doesn't mean it should win, either. Is it ok with you if I root for "Wrong Grandma" and be a Jew at the same time?

It's getting more and more difficult to remember what was posted here, talked about in person, commented on Live Journals, etc.

"Remember"? You quoted me. It's written down. And like I said above, I never said the things you attributed to me, in person on online. Who needs to get a grip now?

Ack, no time to read rest of thread...

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Snowflake

Perhaps this is true, but I thought the Departed was rock solid from top to bottom, a good film and at least he got his overdue Oscar for a good film (IMO, at least) rather than The Aviator.

Oh, and see I thought The Aviator was also a rock-solid film. I didn't like it all that much, but - for the biography genre - it was as rock-solid as just about any (and less than a handful of that genre stand out as fantatastic).

Similarly, in the mob-genre - yeah, The Departed was rock-solid. And only a handful in that genre stand out as fantastic (one of them by Marty himself).

I just don't think rock-solid necessarily qualifies for Best Picture. The Departed was well-crafted. Its awards for editing and screenplay were well-deserved imo. And yeah, before he dies, give the award to Scorcese for any decent thing he's nominated for.

But it rankles that Best Picture went to a remake, just as I bemoan that the best actor and actress nods went to real-person immitators. There was less CREATION in these awarded films and roles, and I think that detracts from their overall greatness.




BTW, the last re-make to win best picture was Ben-Hur in 1959

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Oh, can I also add that while I love Helen Mirren, her "Ladies and Gentlemen I give you The Queen" moment was a little too uppity for me. It didn't play well with me for some reason.

Everyone's noticed the "Quotes" ad campaign the Academy had running all over town, right? Posters proclaming "Frankly My Dear, I Don't Give a Damn" or "I Coulda Been a Contender."

Well, the one right there on the tower of H&H, adjacent to the Kodak Theater, featured on the Oscar broadcast, 40-feet all and a hundred feet in the air was the one blaring "I'm the King of the World!"

Yeah, it's a quote from Titantic. But who can not be reminded of James Cameron's "uppity" yell from the podium upon accepting the Best Picture Oscar? It set a new level for acceptance uppity, one that will reign for generations I think ... and Mirren's was hardly a blip in comparison.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

"Remember"? You quoted me. It's written down.

Heheh, that was a subtle jab at your husband. He recently posted a reference to a live journal comment here that no one but he and I would have understood ... and I was just trying to point out in a vaguely humorous way that some of us know each other so well, we are not necessarily responding to merely what's posted when we post a reply on the LoT.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

And I NEVER said it was "an anti-semetic piece of Israeli-hating propaganda."

That's funny ... according to my notes, that's your exact quote.


I thought it was obvious that line was one of my standard exaggerations for dramatic effect. But did you not tell me you had a problem with West Bank Story because you perceived an anti-Israeli stance??

If you hadn't, my mistake ... and I apologize.






(But my notes say otherwise.)

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Oh, and see I thought The Aviator was also a rock-solid film. I didn't like it all that much, but - for the biography genre - it was as rock-solid as just about any (and less than a handful of that genre stand out as fantatastic).

Similarly, in the mob-genre - yeah, The Departed was rock-solid. And only a handful in that genre stand out as fantastic (one of them by Marty himself).

I just don't think rock-solid necessarily qualifies for Best Picture. The Departed was well-crafted. Its awards for editing and screenplay were well-deserved imo. And yeah, before he dies, give the award to Scorcese for any decent thing he's nominated for.

Hmm, okay, I was only referring (by not really referring) to Scorsese's best director nod. I thought The Aviator was okay for what it was, but to me it was not even close to best picture material. Of the nominated films for BP this year, I had not seen all of them, so in all honesty I was unable to make a real personal judgment call on what should win. But, I was very happy that The Queen (fine film that it was) did not score the BP Oscar. Will I think The Departed is still a best picture worthy film 10 years from now, prolly not and not that this matters. I think it's been covered before that the BP Oscar is more often than not awarded to the best picture by someone's standards.

But it rankles that Best Picture went to a remake, just as I bemoan that the best actor and actress nods went to real-person immitators. There was less CREATION in these awarded films and roles, and I think that detracts from their overall greatness.

Well, this has been done before, a lot, meaning actors portraying real-person imitators.

For instance:

Best Actor:
* Yul Brynner -- The King and I {"The King"}
* Alec Guinness -- The Bridge on the River Kwai {"Colonel Nicholson"}
* Paul Scofield -- A Man for All Seasons {"Sir Thomas More"}
* George C. Scott -- Patton {"General George S. Patton, Jr."}
* Gene Hackman -- The French Connection {"Jimmy 'Popeye' Doyle"}
* Robert De Niro -- Raging Bull {"Jake LaMotta"}
* Ben Kingsley -- Gandhi {"Mahatma Gandhi"}
* Daniel Day-Lewis -- My Left Foot {"Christy Brown"}
* Jeremy Irons -- Reversal of Fortune {"Claus Von Bulow"}
* Geoffrey Rush -- Shine {"David Helfgott"}
* Adrien Brody -- The Pianist {"Wladyslaw Szpilman"}
* Jamie Foxx -- Ray {"Ray Charles"}
* Philip Seymour Hoffman -- Capote {"Truman Capote"}

Best Actress:
ACTRESS
* Ingrid Bergman -- Anastasia {"The Woman"}
* Susan Hayward -- I Want To Live! {"Barbara Graham"}
* Anne Bancroft -- The Miracle Worker {"Annie Sullivan"}
* Julie Andrews -- Mary Poppins {"Mary Poppins"} (Yes, she's a real person)
* Katharine Hepburn -- The Lion in Winter {"Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine"}
[NOTE: A tie. The other winner in this category was Barbra Streisand ('Funny Girl').]
* Barbra Streisand -- Funny Girl {"Fanny Brice"}
[NOTE: A tie. The other winner in this category was Katharine Hepburn ('The Lion in Winter').]
* Sissy Spacek -- Coal Miner's Daughter {"Loretta Lynn"}
* Susan Sarandon -- Dead Man Walking {"Sister Helen Prejean"}
* Hilary Swank -- Boys Don't Cry {"Brandon Teena/Teena Brandon"}
* Julia Roberts -- Erin Brockovich {"Erin Brockovich"}
* Nicole Kidman -- The Hours {"Virginia Woolf"}
* Charlize Theron -- Monster {"Aileen Wuornos"}
* Reese Witherspoon -- Walk the Line {"June Carter"}
* Helen Mirren -- The Queen {"The Queen"}

Best Supporting Actress:
* Shelley Winters -- The Diary of Anne Frank {"Mrs. Van Daan"}
* Patty Duke -- The Miracle Worker {"Helen Keller"}
* Estelle Parsons -- Bonnie and Clyde {"Blanche Barrow"}
* Vanessa Redgrave -- Julia {"Julia"}
* Maureen Stapleton -- Reds {"Emma Goldman"}
* Brenda Fricker -- My Left Foot {"Mrs. Brown"}
* Judi Dench -- Shakespeare in Love {"Queen Elizabeth I"}
* Marcia Gay Harden -- Pollock {"Lee Krasner"}
* Jennifer Connelly -- A Beautiful Mind {"Alicia Nash"}
* Cate Blanchett -- The Aviator {"Katharine Hepburn"}

Best Supporting Actor:
* Joseph Schildkraut -- The Life of Emile Zola {"Captain Alfred Dreyfus"}
* Walter Brennan -- The Westerner {"Judge Roy Bean"}
* Edmund Gwenn -- Miracle on 34th Street {"Kris Kringle"} (Yes, I believe)
* Anthony Quinn -- Viva Zapata! {"Eufemio Zapata"}
* Anthony Quinn -- Lust for Life {"Paul Gauguin"}
* Jason Robards -- All the President's Men {"Ben Bradlee"}
* Jason Robards -- Julia {"Dashiell Hammett"}
* Martin Landau -- Ed Wood {"Bela Lugosi"}
* Jim Broadbent -- Iris {"John Bayley"}

Of course, not all of the above may stand the test of time as being Oscar worthy, but playing a real person in screen is not a new thing. There are some stellar performances in this bunch if you ask me (and you didn't).

BTW, the last re-make to win best picture was Ben-Hur in 1959

Another film that, to me, does not deserve a best picture nod (way after the fact). An achievement in film making, yes. The chariot race, psectacular. The film, a crashing bore. And I love Wyler, but this is IMO.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

But it rankles that Best Picture went to a remake, just as I bemoan that the best actor and actress nods went to real-person imitators. There was less CREATION in these awarded films and roles, and I think that detracts from their overall greatness.




BTW, the last re-make to win best picture was Ben-Hur in 1959

Define remake.

1961:
1968:
1997:
2002:

Maybe if Nicholson had a song or two...

[katiesue]

I have a problem with actors portraying someone who's either still alive or I've seen actual film/tape of, for example JFK or Queen Elizabeth. If they're portraying an actual person, but someone I'm not familair with say Erin Brockavich or Henry VIII then it doesn't bother me as much because I don't have a reference point.

[Alex]

I think there is a distinction to be made between a remake and two movies using the same source material. Sure, it is a fuzzy line but I think one of some distinction.

James Cameron's Titanic was made without really any input from the earlier filmed versions of the story. It is hard to argue that a filmed version of Shakespeare (that is faithful to the play) would be a remake of another faithfully filmed version. 2002's Chicago is a filming of Bob Fosse's book not so much the original Watkins version (which is what Ginger Rogers' is based on ultimately being a remake of the 1927 silent film; the original play was not a musical).

The Departed is most certainly a remake. A Night to Remember is most certainly not. Then things get fuzzier for the others.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Snowflake

this has been done before, a lot, meaning actors portraying real-person imitators.

Oh, I know!

In fact, Mirren and Whitaker became the fourth actors in the last five years to win for non-fiction roles. I don't like the trend.

[mousepod]

Fuzzy is exactly my point. If one is going to argue that less "creation... detracts from overall greatness," then many of the Best Picture winners since 1959 (the arbitrary year we're talking about) have been based on stories created before the film. Not including the ones I mentioned above, you still have:

1962 - biopic (Lawrence of Arabia)
1963 - novel adaptation (Tom Jones)
1964 - stage musical (My Fair Lady)
1965 - stage musical (The Sound of Music)
1966 - stage play (A Man For All Seasons)
1967 - novel adaptation (In The Heat of the Night)
1969 - novel adaptation (Midnight Cowboy)
1970 - biopic (Patton)
1971 - non-fiction book (fictionalized) (The French Connection)
1972 - novel adaptation (The Godfather)
1973 - non-fiction book (fictionalized) (The Sting)
1975 - novel adaptation (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest)

etc etc.

[Alex]

I don't remember if I posted it here. A breakdown of the overrepresentation of "mimicry" roles in the recent acting nominations? Something like 40% over the last four years have gone to portrayals of real people where in the previous five years it was more like 20%.