The Oscars

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Oh, and see I thought The Aviator was also a rock-solid film. I didn't like it all that much, but - for the biography genre - it was as rock-solid as just about any (and less than a handful of that genre stand out as fantatastic).

Similarly, in the mob-genre - yeah, The Departed was rock-solid. And only a handful in that genre stand out as fantastic (one of them by Marty himself).

I just don't think rock-solid necessarily qualifies for Best Picture. The Departed was well-crafted. Its awards for editing and screenplay were well-deserved imo. And yeah, before he dies, give the award to Scorcese for any decent thing he's nominated for.

Hmm, okay, I was only referring (by not really referring) to Scorsese's best director nod. I thought The Aviator was okay for what it was, but to me it was not even close to best picture material. Of the nominated films for BP this year, I had not seen all of them, so in all honesty I was unable to make a real personal judgment call on what should win. But, I was very happy that The Queen (fine film that it was) did not score the BP Oscar. Will I think The Departed is still a best picture worthy film 10 years from now, prolly not and not that this matters. I think it's been covered before that the BP Oscar is more often than not awarded to the best picture by someone's standards.

But it rankles that Best Picture went to a remake, just as I bemoan that the best actor and actress nods went to real-person immitators. There was less CREATION in these awarded films and roles, and I think that detracts from their overall greatness.

Well, this has been done before, a lot, meaning actors portraying real-person imitators.

For instance:

Best Actor:
* Yul Brynner -- The King and I {"The King"}
* Alec Guinness -- The Bridge on the River Kwai {"Colonel Nicholson"}
* Paul Scofield -- A Man for All Seasons {"Sir Thomas More"}
* George C. Scott -- Patton {"General George S. Patton, Jr."}
* Gene Hackman -- The French Connection {"Jimmy 'Popeye' Doyle"}
* Robert De Niro -- Raging Bull {"Jake LaMotta"}
* Ben Kingsley -- Gandhi {"Mahatma Gandhi"}
* Daniel Day-Lewis -- My Left Foot {"Christy Brown"}
* Jeremy Irons -- Reversal of Fortune {"Claus Von Bulow"}
* Geoffrey Rush -- Shine {"David Helfgott"}
* Adrien Brody -- The Pianist {"Wladyslaw Szpilman"}
* Jamie Foxx -- Ray {"Ray Charles"}
* Philip Seymour Hoffman -- Capote {"Truman Capote"}

Best Actress:
ACTRESS
* Ingrid Bergman -- Anastasia {"The Woman"}
* Susan Hayward -- I Want To Live! {"Barbara Graham"}
* Anne Bancroft -- The Miracle Worker {"Annie Sullivan"}
* Julie Andrews -- Mary Poppins {"Mary Poppins"} (Yes, she's a real person)
* Katharine Hepburn -- The Lion in Winter {"Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine"}
[NOTE: A tie. The other winner in this category was Barbra Streisand ('Funny Girl').]
* Barbra Streisand -- Funny Girl {"Fanny Brice"}
[NOTE: A tie. The other winner in this category was Katharine Hepburn ('The Lion in Winter').]
* Sissy Spacek -- Coal Miner's Daughter {"Loretta Lynn"}
* Susan Sarandon -- Dead Man Walking {"Sister Helen Prejean"}
* Hilary Swank -- Boys Don't Cry {"Brandon Teena/Teena Brandon"}
* Julia Roberts -- Erin Brockovich {"Erin Brockovich"}
* Nicole Kidman -- The Hours {"Virginia Woolf"}
* Charlize Theron -- Monster {"Aileen Wuornos"}
* Reese Witherspoon -- Walk the Line {"June Carter"}
* Helen Mirren -- The Queen {"The Queen"}

Best Supporting Actress:
* Shelley Winters -- The Diary of Anne Frank {"Mrs. Van Daan"}
* Patty Duke -- The Miracle Worker {"Helen Keller"}
* Estelle Parsons -- Bonnie and Clyde {"Blanche Barrow"}
* Vanessa Redgrave -- Julia {"Julia"}
* Maureen Stapleton -- Reds {"Emma Goldman"}
* Brenda Fricker -- My Left Foot {"Mrs. Brown"}
* Judi Dench -- Shakespeare in Love {"Queen Elizabeth I"}
* Marcia Gay Harden -- Pollock {"Lee Krasner"}
* Jennifer Connelly -- A Beautiful Mind {"Alicia Nash"}
* Cate Blanchett -- The Aviator {"Katharine Hepburn"}

Best Supporting Actor:
* Joseph Schildkraut -- The Life of Emile Zola {"Captain Alfred Dreyfus"}
* Walter Brennan -- The Westerner {"Judge Roy Bean"}
* Edmund Gwenn -- Miracle on 34th Street {"Kris Kringle"} (Yes, I believe)
* Anthony Quinn -- Viva Zapata! {"Eufemio Zapata"}
* Anthony Quinn -- Lust for Life {"Paul Gauguin"}
* Jason Robards -- All the President's Men {"Ben Bradlee"}
* Jason Robards -- Julia {"Dashiell Hammett"}
* Martin Landau -- Ed Wood {"Bela Lugosi"}
* Jim Broadbent -- Iris {"John Bayley"}

Of course, not all of the above may stand the test of time as being Oscar worthy, but playing a real person in screen is not a new thing. There are some stellar performances in this bunch if you ask me (and you didn't).

BTW, the last re-make to win best picture was Ben-Hur in 1959

Another film that, to me, does not deserve a best picture nod (way after the fact). An achievement in film making, yes. The chariot race, psectacular. The film, a crashing bore. And I love Wyler, but this is IMO.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Snowflake

this has been done before, a lot, meaning actors portraying real-person imitators.

Oh, I know!

In fact, Mirren and Whitaker became the fourth actors in the last five years to win for non-fiction roles. I don't like the trend.

[Alex]

I don't remember if I posted it here. A breakdown of the overrepresentation of "mimicry" roles in the recent acting nominations? Something like 40% over the last four years have gone to portrayals of real people where in the previous five years it was more like 20%.

[Alex]

I can't argue with that (and I don't feel that being a remake necessarily hampers The Departed; yes, I know this is inconsistent with my practice of starting mimicry performances in the penalty box) but one big difference, I think, is that with a filmed remake of another film you are provided not just with story or specific dialog but also camera angles, editing decisions, pacing, staging, etc. You can pick what has already worked on film once while tweaking what has already been shown to not. In other words, while those other sources help with story they don't necessary help with the cinematic parts. I think United 93 should have been nominated for best picture (though not win) and there wasn't anything "creative" in the movie; it was intentionally un-creative.

Not having seen Infernal Affairs I don't know how much Scorcese benefited from all of that or if it was essentially like starting from scratch with a screenplay.

Interestingly, though, if the sequel to The Departed gets made it won't be a remake of the sequel to Internal Affairs since the American sequel will apparently focus on the Mark Wahlberg character that doesn't exist in the original version.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

but one big difference, I think, is that with a filmed remake of another film you are provided not just with story or specific dialog but also camera angles, editing decisions, pacing, staging, etc. You can pick what has already worked on film once while tweaking what has already been shown to not. In other words, while those other sources help with story they don't necessary help with the cinematic parts.

I definitely give more creative credit to films adapted from other media than I do ones remade from another film for this very reason. As evidenced by the early days of film, transferring theatric stage direction to the camera just doesn't cut it. Even dialog and story doesn't survive direct translation to screen. It takes quite a bit of creative effort to take a good play or novel and make it a good movie. With something that was already a movie once, much of that effort is already done for you.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Oh, I know!

In fact, Mirren and Whitaker became the fourth actors in the last five years to win for non-fiction roles. I don't like the trend.

Yeah, and I do agree with you here 100%.

Although, going back a few years, one of the few times I leap off my seat and cheered an Oscar win was to Martin Landau for his Bela Lugosi portrayal from Ed Wood. According to reports, it was not a true portrayal of Lugosi, but is was a helluva performance (I thought).