Alito

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Name

huh??? how is there a difference in the level of responsibility in a legal agreement between the sexes?? Or did I read it wrong??

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is that since there is a legal agreement in a a marriage, the male has a larger responsibility than if there was no legal agreement - as in there is no marriage. I did not mean that the male has more responsibility than the female.

[Name]

I wasn't very clear. What I mean is that since there is a legal agreement in a a marriage, the male has a larger responsibility than if there was no legal agreement - as in there is no marriage. I did not mean that the male has more responsibility than the female.

ahh, ok, then I can agree with that.... figured if I read it wrong, someone else probably did too....

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I guess the matter of choice goes like this.....when man chooses to have sex, little cash registers should go off in his head at that time, if he doesn't mind the sound and the implication, then he can continue. If he does mind, then he should probably switch to masturbation.

Yes. I agree. But shouldn't the woman be hearing the pitter patter of little feet or the cash register as well? Except that she can choose to abort if she is irresponsible (or b.c fails) and the man cannot. The man has no say.

[Alex]

I have yet to hear anyone ever give me a logical reason why the man should be financially responsible when it is only the choice of the woman to have the child or to abort the child.

Because the right to financial support attaches to the child. It is not the right of the adults to decide whether they wish to assume this responsibility. For the most part, it is impossible for biological parents to sever financial responsibility regardless of the means, methods, or machinations involved in producing said child unless they can first provide a surrogate for that responsibility (generally through adoption). This right of support attached to the child is so strong that even non-biological caretakers can become ensnared in it (for example, if you raise a child as your own for 10 years and then learn that the milkman was actually the father you'll likely still be on the financial hook for raising the child; though the milkman will now be on the hook as well).

Personally, I am in favor of requiring spousal notification just as I am for requiring parental nofication if the woman in question is a non-emancipated minor. It is important that in both cases there be a means for showing cause for exception. In no situation should anybody be forced to have an abortion or to carry a baby to term against their wishes.

It is easy to say "if you're a man, think of the dollar signs before sticking your ding-a-ling in any hoochies." Turning it around, it is just as appropriate to say that if you're a woman, and you're about to let your hoo-hah feel the exquisite pain of someone's love muscle but you don't think you could discuss an eventual abortion with them, you might want to close your legs.

As an aside, in the case of a test tube baby, where there is no "my body, my decision" issue should both parents be required to agree on termination? I have no idea what is actually required now for such.

[Prudence]

I'd like to go down a different avenue -- scaeagles mentioned earlier that he wouldn't object to abortion to save the life of the mother. Who would get to make that assessment? Would death have to be certain? What if death were 90% certain? Or 20% certain? What if the woman's doctor said it was an 80% risk of death but another doctor said it was only a 15% risk? And isn't there always some small risk? If so, then to effect a ban wouldn't that require drawing a line in the sand? 50%? And isn't one of the criticisms of medical malpractice cases that you can always find a medical expert to support one side or the other? What if she wouldn't die, but would suffer certain, permanent, and drastically debilitating injury? What if the pregnancy wouldn't kill her, but the chemotherapy she needs to stop the spread of cancer would terminate the pregnancy? Should she be required to wait? And in any of these cases, should the spouse's permission still be granted? Should spouses be put in the position of choosing their wife or their potential child?

Anyhow, that's a big laundry list of reasons I don't like the abortion debate becoming the focus of judicial nomination sessions. And why is it the focus? Because each side is just chomping at the bit to get the issue back into court. Any case. Doesn't matter which one -- each side wants "their representatives" in place so they can appeal the next possible case up the ladder. You want to talk about judicial activism -- *that's* judicial activism -- manupulating the courts into taking cases that promote a particular philosophy. And don't get me wrong -- both sides are equally culpable in this particular mess.

And frankly, I think this question doesn't belong in the courts at all, much less over and over as it has in much of recent history. My personal view? On the one hand, I *don't* think that a woman should have unilateral authority to terminate conception, any more than I think a woman should have total financial responsibility for the results of conception. I don't think it's "fair."

On the other hand, I don't know how to answer the questions I asked above. I don't anticipate, without miraculous developments in medical science, that I will ever have answers to those questions. I don't think it's my business to answer those questions. I hope and pray that I am never in a situation where I have to answer those questions, either for myself or someone else. If I ever do have to answer those questions for myself, I hope and pray that I will be permitted to do so.

I haven't found a way to be "fair" and still address my laundry list of questions. I haven't heard a solution from anyone else, either -- not from pundits, senators, special interest group spokesflunkies, or judicial candidates. And I wish this debate would step out of the spotlight already. I don't doubt that the newest nominee is fully qualified. (Although seriously, can one Supreme Court handle more than one "Scalia"?) But I hate the feeling that what makes him *most* qualified, from the conservative side, is his alleged stance on abortion. I hate feeling like the qualification checklist has, instead of professional accomplishments, little boxes next to terms like "affirmative action," "gay rights," "death penalty" -- with the AG in the wings ready to pounce as soon as all the pawns are in place. I hate feeling like the "independent judiciary" is a myth, and that the supreme court is like any other executive branch appointment, responding to that particular President and his (or her) whims -- only the appointees are for life.

But possibly this is all because I'm sick and cranky.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a bra that needs burning and a social order to overthrow.

[wendybeth]

Need a match, Prudence?

Great post!

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Because the right to financial support attaches to the child.

True. But if there is an abortion, there is no child. The woman is the sole decision maker as to whether or not to give birth or abort. Therefore, she is the one who is directly responsible for the child being there. After all, prior to abortion, it's just an unviable tissue mass, right? So getting rid of it is no big deal.

As a reminder, my arguments are solely rhetorical. I do not regard the unborn fetus as an unviable tissue mass, nor do I think that the contributin male should have no responsibility.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

And what is it that makes him so extreme that a filibuster would be required?

I am personally very excited about this pick. While I don't know a ton about him, he is often referred to as "Scalia-lite" or "ScAlito", but with a more low key temperament than the brilliant (whether you agree with him or not) Scalia.

My guess is that he will perform as well as Roberts in hearings and will make the inquisitors on the judiciary committee, once again, look like the mental midgets that they are.

This is where we find out that the "sca" in Scaeagles actually stands for Scalito and he will now be moving to DC, to be the first Swanky SC Justice.

[Name]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

True. But if there is an abortion, there is no child. The woman is the sole decision maker as to whether or not to give birth or abort. Therefore, she is the one who is directly responsible for the child being there. After all, prior to abortion, it's just an unviable tissue mass, right? So getting rid of it is no big deal.

As a reminder, my arguments are solely rhetorical. I do not regard the unborn fetus as an unviable tissue mass, nor do I think that the contributin male should have no responsibility.

Why of course we men should have no responsibility.... after all, we shoot out millions of the little swimming guys undiscriminately with every ejaculation experience.... One may be able to argue that such disregard is reckless abandonment......

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Name

after all, we shoot out millions of the little swimming guys undiscriminately

Which reminds me of the classic -

What do lawyers and sperm have in common?

Each has about a one in a million shot of becoming human. (ba-da bum)