Man Commits Suicide at DLH

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

With all due respect, the treatment worked for you because you had enough rationality, or at least enough of a support system to convince you of what course you needed to take. Many people who are severely depressed cannot conceive of the idea that it is "all in their head." To them, it is the world that is being merciless; they are the same person that they have always been. The idea that a pill could make a cruel world easier to deal with is a completely foreign concept that they are often unwilling or unable to grasp.

I think we really are on (for the most part) the same side of the argument. I think where I had the issue was with the position of similarity between someone with a terminal illness taking there own life vs. someone with a mental illness taking their own life.

A person with a terminal illness is in their rational mind and the decision to end their own life IS a difficult and painful decision. There is no amount of help that a doctor, loved ones, or anyone can provide that will take away that person's pain. This person is usually faced with only two realistic options: a (typically short) life with nothing but pain, etc. or an end to that life.

A person with a mental illness is NOT in their rational mind (I know: I've been there). Deciding to take one's own life due to depression, that person has decided to chose the easy way out. They have not looked at their options and chosen to take the easiest way out (and one could argue that they do not have the capacity to look at their options - they can only see one). But that person still made that decision and yes, I argue that they have taken the easy way out due to a weakness. That the weakness is out of their control does not mean it is not a weakness.

Yes, I was lucky enough to have people around me that were able to help me and the hardest thing I've ever done in my life was to acknowledge that I had a problem and needed help. Even accepting that I needed to take drugs to be able to live life drove me deeper into a depression. I view my road to recovery much like an alcoholic views their illness: it is an affliction that I will never be rid of and I must spend the rest of my life working to overcome it.

And I am never hesitant to discuss mental health issues. I believe we need to lessen the stigma often attached to it. It is my hope that the more I talk with people about it, the less of an issue it becomes in our society.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

But that person still made that decision and yes, I argue that they have taken the easy way out due to a weakness. That the weakness is out of their control does not mean it is not a weakness.

I would argue that, according to their perception of their life and problems, they aren't taking the easy way out, but the only way out, as they perceive it. As I see it, the "decision" part is completely out of the equation, as they are not of sound mind. We wouldn't allow a person with a mental illness to enter into a legally binding contract, and yet, we expect them to be able to make a decision in regard to their treatment? That makes no sense.

And I can't understand at all why a mental illness should be seen as a perceived weakness. With all due respect, it is that kind of thinking that often prevents people from getting the help that they need. I hope that I am misunderstanding your position because I find it hard to believe that someone who has been there would be quick to assign, what I perceive to be, blame. Certainly, that isn't what you are suggesting, is it?

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

And I can't understand at all why a mental illness should be seen as a perceived weakness.

What would you call it?

With all due respect, while I understand your reasons for objecting to it, it IS a disadvantage aka a weakness. The problem comes when people are unwilling to accept weakness in themselves and therefore live in denial instead. Not that I'm passing judgment on on them for it, since we all do that to some degree about at least a few aspects of our lives, but the fact remains, that mental illness is hardly counted amongst one's strengths.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

What would you call it?

With all due respect, while I understand your reasons for objecting to it, it IS a disadvantage aka a weakness. The problem comes when people are unwilling to accept weakness in themselves and therefore live in denial instead. Not that I'm passing judgment on on them for it, since we all do that to some degree about at least a few aspects of our lives, but the fact remains, that mental illness is hardly counted amongst one's strengths.

With all due respect, we don't generally tell people with cancer that they have a "weakness."

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

What would you call it?

An illness, plain and simple.

Weakness, IMHO, implies a fault, a flaw, and ultimately ... blame. And I don't think that someone who is mentally ill is at fault or to blame. Yes, they lack the tools necessary for rational thought, and in that respect, I suppose that I could semantics-wise see your reasoning. And yet, it is precisely that lack of rational thought that makes cringe at the word "weak."

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

An illness, plain and simple.

Weakness, IMHO, implies a fault, a flaw, and ultimately ... blame. And I don't think that someone who is mentally ill is at fault or to blame. Yes, they lack the tools necessary for rational thought, and in that respect, I suppose that I could semantics-wise see your reasoning. And yet, it is precisely that lack of rational thought that makes cringe at the word "weak."

See, our problem is one of definitions. I view something as a weakness but accept it on those terms. Weakness does not require the assignation of blame in my book, it just is what it is. If something makes life more difficult, it's a weakness, as it robs you of resources (mental, emotional, physical) that you would otherwise allocate towards your goals.

But if you have a weakness, that doesn't mean you're to blame for it. If someone is born with a bad lisp and they dream of becoming a news anchor, guess what, it's a weakness. Maybe not an insurmountable one, but it means they are going to have to allocate extra personal resources toward the goal just to make them equal to their competition.

Being able to identify and accept your weaknesses is how you equip yourself to overcoming them.

But again, I think we're using a different definition of weakness. I view weaknesses as something you accept for what they are, without passing judgment on their origin.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

See, our problem is one of definitions. I view something as a weakness but accept it on those terms. Weakness does not require the assignation of blame in my book, it just is what it is. If something makes life more difficult, it's a weakness, as it robs you of resources (mental, emotional, physical) that you would otherwise allocate towards your goals.

But if you have a weakness, that doesn't mean you're to blame for it. If someone is born with a bad lisp and they dream of becoming a news anchor, guess what, it's a weakness. Maybe not an insurmountable one, but it means they are going to have to allocate extra personal resources toward the goal just to make them equal to their competition.

Being able to identify and accept your weaknesses is how you equip yourself to overcoming them.

But again, I think we're using a different definition of weakness. I view weaknesses as something you accept for what they are, without passing judgment on their origin.

But I think that there is judgment being passed here, although perhaps not intentionally. You have written that you see weakness as the opposite of strength. I think most people would deem strength to be an admirable quality, wouldn't you? And in that regard, it stands to reason that weakness isn't something that is neutral. It is undesirable, and what seems to be implied in some of these posts is that, if only people tried harder, they could fix this undesirable defect.

You can make yourself stronger but you can't really make yourself not have a mental illness. And not only can you not usually combat it on your own - in many cases, you don't even recognize that it exists. With a lisp, at least the problem is staring you in the face and you can make rational decisions on how best to remedy it. With mental illness, often you are fooled into thinking that you aren't the problem - it is the rest of the world that has turned upside-down. Rational decisions don’t even come into play. So, how do you "equip yourself to overcome that?"