Man Commits Suicide at DLH

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

There is a huge difference: mental/emotional pain is not terminal. At worst, one can be lobotomized, but the majority of mental and emotional afflictions can be dealt with through drugs and/or therapy.

As one who will probably be on medication for the rest of my life for depression, I do not see a parallel between a painful terminal illness and spirit killing emotional pain.

With all due respect, the treatment worked for you because you had enough rationality, or at least enough of a support system to convince you of what course you needed to take. Many people who are severely depressed cannot conceive of the idea that it is "all in their head." To them, it is the world that is being merciless; they are the same person that they have always been. The idea that a pill could make a cruel world easier to deal with is a completely foreign concept that they are often unwilling or unable to grasp.

I am obviously very happy to hear that you had the ability to seek out treatment and even more happy to hear that it has worked for you. Were mental illness better understood by people in general, those that are tackling severe depression might have a better chance at weathering the storm, so to speak. You are one of the lucky ones. Many are not - and, I can't help but feel that often it is a result of their support system not truly understanding what depression is or how it can affect someone.

I alluded above to having some experience with someone who was severely depressed. I wasn't talking about my roommate, but rather my mom. At first, my father and I thought that we could simply "talk her out of it" and we gave as many pep talks as we could muster. It wasn't until we actually learned more about the disease through books and such that we started to really grasp the situation. And once we were able to get her to a hospital (completely against her will) they found a major potassium deficiency, based in part by the effects of terminal cancer and a failed liver that were previously undiagnosed. She still only had very little time left in this world, but within a day of treatment, her mental capacity had returned to the point that she was an entirely different person, her old self. And with that treatment, she was finally able to think clearly again and face the fact that she was very sick. When I saw how something as simple as a lack of potassium could completely unravel a person mentally, I started to understand better that brain chemistry can affect a person much more than I ever truly realized.

Due to her severe depression and diminished mental capabilities, she had been hiding from us how sick she really was. Now, she was willing to face it and start treatment. Unfortunately, she was too far along for anyone to be helped by that point. But, at least for those few remaining weeks, her family was once again able to have a rational conversation with her. And I'm very grateful for that fact.

I know I'm rambling, but this is a topic that still hits very close to home.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

With all due respect, the treatment worked for you because you had enough rationality, or at least enough of a support system to convince you of what course you needed to take. Many people who are severely depressed cannot conceive of the idea that it is "all in their head." To them, it is the world that is being merciless; they are the same person that they have always been. The idea that a pill could make a cruel world easier to deal with is a completely foreign concept that they are often unwilling or unable to grasp.

I think we really are on (for the most part) the same side of the argument. I think where I had the issue was with the position of similarity between someone with a terminal illness taking there own life vs. someone with a mental illness taking their own life.

A person with a terminal illness is in their rational mind and the decision to end their own life IS a difficult and painful decision. There is no amount of help that a doctor, loved ones, or anyone can provide that will take away that person's pain. This person is usually faced with only two realistic options: a (typically short) life with nothing but pain, etc. or an end to that life.

A person with a mental illness is NOT in their rational mind (I know: I've been there). Deciding to take one's own life due to depression, that person has decided to chose the easy way out. They have not looked at their options and chosen to take the easiest way out (and one could argue that they do not have the capacity to look at their options - they can only see one). But that person still made that decision and yes, I argue that they have taken the easy way out due to a weakness. That the weakness is out of their control does not mean it is not a weakness.

Yes, I was lucky enough to have people around me that were able to help me and the hardest thing I've ever done in my life was to acknowledge that I had a problem and needed help. Even accepting that I needed to take drugs to be able to live life drove me deeper into a depression. I view my road to recovery much like an alcoholic views their illness: it is an affliction that I will never be rid of and I must spend the rest of my life working to overcome it.

And I am never hesitant to discuss mental health issues. I believe we need to lessen the stigma often attached to it. It is my hope that the more I talk with people about it, the less of an issue it becomes in our society.

[Tom]

Not directed at anyone in particular, just my thoughts/experience:

What I didn't grasp, or at least fully understand, untill my depression worsened was that for people with depression (and, I assume, other mental illnesses), the world in which they perceive themselves as living, and which is the source of their depressive feelings, is as real to them as the "regular" world is to those without mental health issues. The actions they take, be they suicide or obsessive hand washing or talking to the voices they hear, are to them the logical and rational responses to what they experience. It is easy for us to say that they should do this or that, but they can't be expected to react to the world in what we see as a rational (or moral) way when the organ with which they perceive that world is broken.

Luckily, my depression was mild (relative to what it could be), and I had the capability at a certain point to step back and say "this isn't how things are supposed to be," and get help. But I experienced that other world for a little while, and I know that it's not as far away as it seems and very easy to get lost in.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Deciding to take one's own life due to depression, that person has decided to chose the easy way out. ... and yes, I argue that they have taken the easy way out due to a weakness.

The EASY WAY OUT???


I find it hard to believe you ever seriously contemplated suicide.





Perhaps that was a cavalier thing to say ... but no moreso than to describe a suicidal person's concept of ending their own existence as "the easy way out." Sheesh.

[Prudence]

This is a difficult issue for me because in some respects I teeter on the brink of suicide myself on a regular (sometimes daily) basis.

I know that my depression is related to a chemical imbalance of some kind. I know this because for many years I was able to take an anti-depressant that worked for me. It was great. I still had my various hang-ups and issues, but most of the time it freed me to just be myself. Not walk around in a medicated haze, not exhibit some kind of chemically induced euphoria - just be myself without the constant barrage of self-criticism.

Unfortunately, this wonder drug was pulled from the market several years ago and my pathetic HMO has not been interested in finding a suitable replacement. This leaves me in a tough spot - I feel the emotional pain I used to and I'm back to seeing nothing but fault in everything I am and do. At the same time, I've had a pretty solid glimpse of the other side so I know, intellectually, that what I'm feeling isn't the only reality out there.

Thus, I'm a bit of a split personality. On the one hand, I know that I'm probably doing better than I give myself credit for. I know that it's possible for me to be happy - or at least happier. And I have some hope that one day I'll be able to feel that way again. My emotional side, however, struggles on a regular basis to fight through a fog of negative that just won't quit. I can do things to reduce and alleviate that fog - and I do so to the best of my meager ability - but I have not managed to make it go away.

It's an interesting position. Some days I simultaneously *know* that 1) any sadness my family might feel at my passing would be short-lived and eventually outweighed by relief that I was out of their lives forever and 2) that the previous thought is complete crap manufactured by my malfunctioning brain. And maybe it's just the general utilitarian bent of my personal philosophy that those who have committed suicide don't necessarily share, and I'm sure that some do the deed out of revenge or whatnot, but I have a hard time seeing all suicides as selfish. "Selfish" is the word we apply, from our perspective, based on our sense of loss. If I didn't have experience to tell me my emotions are "wrong", I might not be here now - and I would have done it with the firm belief that, after the dust had settled, friends and family would agree that it was for the best.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I find it hard to believe you ever seriously contemplated suicide.

Contemplated and attempted.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Perhaps that was a cavalier thing to say ... but no moreso than to describe a suicidal person's concept of ending their own existence as "the easy way out." Sheesh.

I stand by my comments. It is MUCH harder to acknowledge a problem and accept help. I speak from experience. I even acknowledged to myself at the time that it was the simplest way out of my situation.

[innerSpaceman]

Oh, i'm sure for the vast majority of those who actually commit suicide, that option was the best one thought available. That does not make it the easy way out.

You needn't answer this, because it's getting very personal, but i have to wonder if seemed "simple" or "easy" for you to to end your own life.


Sorry to be nitpicky on words. If you had said "it seemed the most simple solution," I would not have jumped on it. But too many call it the "easy way out." And especially coming from someone who purportedly got very, very close the snuff point, I find that very offensive.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

But that person still made that decision and yes, I argue that they have taken the easy way out due to a weakness. That the weakness is out of their control does not mean it is not a weakness.

I would argue that, according to their perception of their life and problems, they aren't taking the easy way out, but the only way out, as they perceive it. As I see it, the "decision" part is completely out of the equation, as they are not of sound mind. We wouldn't allow a person with a mental illness to enter into a legally binding contract, and yet, we expect them to be able to make a decision in regard to their treatment? That makes no sense.

And I can't understand at all why a mental illness should be seen as a perceived weakness. With all due respect, it is that kind of thinking that often prevents people from getting the help that they need. I hope that I am misunderstanding your position because I find it hard to believe that someone who has been there would be quick to assign, what I perceive to be, blame. Certainly, that isn't what you are suggesting, is it?

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Oh, i'm sure for the vast majority of those who actually commit suicide, that option was the best one thought available. That does not make it the easy way out.

I cannot speak for others; I can only speak from my own experience. As I said above, it was the EASIEST way out. I even acknowledged that fact to myself. And I have heard that from others. I just wanted to the pan to be over.

But this is not a cavalier statement. It is a point that I and others make to emphasize a point. In dealing with someone contemplating the same thing, I say the same thing: suicide is the easy way out. And there aren't many things where the easy way is the better way.

I am educated and it affords me an opportunity to have things in life that I probably wouldn't have had I taken the easier way of not getting an education.

I enjoy a long-term relationship because I work hard at it. I could choose to take the easier way and just bail out when anything challenging comes up.

I am alive today because I chose to work hard to overcome my depression. Had I taken the easy way out, you would not be reading these words.

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

And I can't understand at all why a mental illness should be seen as a perceived weakness.

What would you call it?

With all due respect, while I understand your reasons for objecting to it, it IS a disadvantage aka a weakness. The problem comes when people are unwilling to accept weakness in themselves and therefore live in denial instead. Not that I'm passing judgment on on them for it, since we all do that to some degree about at least a few aspects of our lives, but the fact remains, that mental illness is hardly counted amongst one's strengths.