Debates of all ilk

[Ghoulish Delight]

Palin definitely fared better in the more familiar surroundings of a prepped traditional debate, something I'm sure she's been doing since JSA in high school. Still clearly has not processed these issues enough to be speaking off script, but she did fine with the script she was taught.

I thought Biden did a stellar job of driving home two main themes. 1) Go ahead and bring up individual votes all you want, I can show you how the REAL thrust of that vote was the bill it was attached to, not the issue you want it to be about and 2) No matter what decisions we eventually were cornered into going forward on (see point 1), we were arguing against it and only voted for it because SOMETHING had to be done even if we didn't agree that it was the best choice, and in those cases the result was exactly what we predicted would happen.

Places where I think he failed: 1) Regarding the surge, I think the Obama camp's tack should be, "We were against the surge not because we think it was doomed to failure, but because we would rather have seen a strategy that put the responsibility on Iraqis to handle their own ****." 2) "I challenge you to find a place where my message differs from Obama, unlike you who don't represent the same things your candidate is supposedly running for," then in his very next answer, "I am not afraid to speak my mind and tell Obama when I disagree with him."

But my favorite quote from him was, "I do not question their motives, I question their judgment." It's the attitude that drew me to Obama to begin with. The radical concept that it's possible to disagree with someone without vilifying them.

[Ruthie]

Originally Posted by bewitched

As an aside, every time she winked at the camera and said things like, "Say it ain't so Joe," I would think of Tina Fey with her fingers in the air going, "Pew, pew, pew..."
.

LMHO! I wondered if that winking was bugging you as much as it was me!

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Biden was great. I found myself being impressed with him. There's a reason he's been in the Senate since he was 30. He sounded presidential to me, she did not.

Palin's cutesy sh!t is wearing thin on me. I'm also glad that Biden called her and McCain on all the 'Maverick' talk.

I even found myself teary-eyed when he talked about his son in the military. I loved that he pointed out that she didn't corner the market on family life.

I think tonight Palin erased her Couric interview image. But it made invisible Biden look downright awesome, imho.

I agree on all your points!

The term "cutesy sh!t" is right on. UGH

I am more impressed with Biden then before. He gives me hope and confidence. I like and respect what I have seen of him.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I thought Biden did a stellar job of driving home two main themes. 1) Go ahead and bring up individual votes all you want, I can show you how the REAL thrust of that vote was the bill it was attached to, not the issue you want it to be about

Places where I think he failed: 1) Regarding the surge, I think the Obama camp's tack should be, "We were against the surge not because we think it was doomed to failure, but because we would rather have seen a strategy that put the responsibility on Iraqis to handle their own ****."

Kind of like when Biden was saying Obama voted for the 4 billion in oil company tax breaks, but did so for a different motive than McCain? Clearly when they voted the same he was questioning their motives.

Secondly, it may be good if Obama says that about the surge, but it would be a lie. The entire dem platform - and I'll look for Obama quotes later - has been that it was doomed to failure, and that it was failing.

What Biden had no answer for was when she quote him regarding how he disagreed with Obama and his stances duing the primary debates and would be honored to run with McCain. He had no answer for that.

[3894]

Biden is my new geriatric crush.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Kind of like when Biden was saying Obama voted for the 4 billion in oil company tax breaks, but did so for a different motive than McCain? Clearly when they voted the same he was questioning their motives.

No, what he said, over and over, was that in the examples she would bring up in which Obama voted for/against X, either Obama was actually voting for/against Y which just happened to have X attached to it. Did John McCain vote for mandatory mental health coverage, NASCAR subsidies, and tax breaks this week? No, he voted for the bailout package. Did McCainn vote against troop funding? No, he voted against a timetable. That isn't questioning motivation, that's, correctly, pointing out that senate voting records are complex and easily distorted by ignoring context (not saying Obama's camp doesn't do the same, but it's still a salient point).

[Alex]

Ifill was hampered by the debate format which didn't really allow for follow up questions.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex

Ifill was hampered by the debate format which didn't really allow for follow up questions.

I wonder if she was also hampered by a broken ankle that left her feeling somehow impotent.

[Alex]

I certainly have complaints about the initial questions she asked (to often she was including the means of sidestepping in her question, or offering possible answers), but I don't blame her about the lack of follow up.

One can complain about whether the candidates weaving around the rules is acceptable, but she doesn't get to just make up rules and follow ups weren't allowed for.

[Not Afraid]

I didn't watch the debate but I did read (on another board) that Palin was wearing red stilettos and was making notes on a pad of paper throughout. Someone surmised what she must be writing:

To Do:
Look up Hezbollah on Wikipedia
Buy Lipstick

It made me laugh.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I thought the equal rights for gays question was phrased in favor of Biden. It allowed Biden a "yes, I support their rights," answer instead of having to lead with, "No, I don't support marriage but..." Either way it was clear that Palin stopped short of saying she supported the same rights as Biden did, but posing the question without specifically mentioning marriage played to his favor.

The winking made me cringe, as did "nucular".

She said "O'Biden" once.

I do expect the McCain ticket to get a boost in the polls from this. She more than met the rock-bottom bar of lowered expectations.

The one question that I felt she made the biggest dodge on was on whether Bush's Mid East policy has been a failure. Didn't address it at all.

And in general, though I'm admittedly biased, I don't think Palin successfully sold the, "You're looking to the past while we're looking to the future," line. Biden did an excellent job of selling the view that your choice to vote shouldn't be about who talk tough once the sh*t has hit the fan, it's about the people who have shown that they forsaw the sh*t hitting the fan in the first place and would have tried to prevent it.

How accurate that framing is may be up for debate, but Biden made the case well in this forum.