A Prop 8 challenge for swankers

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex

But once that day is achieved you won't feel any desire to use it where you did. You weren't using it to dilute its harming impact, you were using it to exploit it.

Oh, absolutely.

But it would have been like me using "Pantywaste" to really mean something awful ... and it still would remain harmless because society has moved way beyond the hurtful effect of that word.


Ok, yeah, so maybe being an up-to-date guy I wouldn't have used "Pantywaste."

I'm not claiming I used the "N" word because I personally think it's meaningless. I used it for derrogatory effect because I know it's still taken that way if I as a white internet person use it (though, hello, unless you know me, you can't tell the color of my skin over the internet).

And yes, I thought it was completely appropriate turnabout on those black voters, seventy percent of them, who consider me and mine subhuman and, yes, absolutely the new n*ggers of the world - - ok to spit on, to dehumanize, to abuse and humiliate.

So Fvck Them and, yes, I liked throwing their stupid word back at them.


But it's just a stupid word ... and I remain congratutory of blacks on their road to disarming the word completely. Obviously, that's not yet done. And as long as they insist it's off limits to whites, it won't be done.


So, it's fine by me if you straight folk use "Faggot."

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

This is going to sound rough. I absolutely adore my friends and family members who spoke out against Prop 8. I appreciate the anger and grief you feel from the day Prop 8 came on the ballot to today. But part of me is frustrated because I have been feeling that same anger and grief now everyday for the past 10 years that I have been a gay activist and everyday since I came out of the closet 15 years ago. So I say to you, 'Welcome to the club. You should be hurt and angry. Thank you for joining in. Don't just tell me about how you're mad, show me that you're going to do something about it. We need your help.'

This is the part I'm feeling guilt over. By nature I am not a demonstrative person. I am also not a joiner. Though much reduced over the years I still dread talking to people I don't know, especially if it could be confrontational.

When the Supreme Court ruling came down I said congratulations even though I don't think that the judiciary is the best way to achieve these victories. And I still feel that way, judicial victories before the general population is ready for them tend to inflame rather than settle. And therefore I could sit mostly on the sidelines, letting the main "combatants" slowly move the ball with me doing my small things to advance it and mostly not get in the way.

But, while I was willing to see it achieved (admittedly the more painful path I would not personally bear the brunt of) through the slow road of demographic change, the victory was still won.

And I was overconfident. Overconfident that while I was pretty sure the population wouldn't vote to give gay marriage, they also wouldn't vote to take it away.

And I was lulled. Lulled by the polls showing that while it would be dispiritingly close, it would still fail and that each year after that it would become increasingly unlikely anybody would ever again succeed at doing away with that victory.

So I gnashed my teeth at the Yes on 8 sign wavers. I resisted the urge to pull Yes on 8 signs out of the ground. I convinced myself that the Yes on 8 crowd could not be convinced otherwise, and fortunately for me (or so I thought) they don't need to be convinced. They would lose, and each year they would lose some more. And eventually they would be far enough in the loss column that they would have to hide their views in polite company and then they would begin to die out.

But I was wrong. And while I don't honestly believe a fuller participation on my part would have changed anything, I should have done it anyway.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

So, it's fine by me if you straight folk use "Faggot."

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I can call my gay friends 'faggot,' but straight people better dare not.

Huh.

[JWBear]

After long thought and careful consideration I have decided that I can not be angry at the majority of Californians who voted "yes". They did not do it out of malice. Some voted due to outdated and unexamined personal convictions, others due to being confused and misled by the lies. They did not vote the way they did in order to strike a blow against gay rights, for they do not see it in that light. To them, it is a matter of protecting something they think is threatened. They are wrong and misinformed, but they are not malevolent. I truly believe that, if not for the lies of the "Yes on 8" organizers, many of these people would have voted differently. With enough time and education, they will come around.

No, I’ll reserve my anger, my condemnation, and yes, my hatred for the people who ran the pro-8 campaign - the ones who used their positions and influence to lie their way to victory. They are our true enemies. The good people of California were merely the pawns in their evil game. These are the people we must fight. This is where our energy must be directed.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I'm not claiming I used the "N" word because I personally think it's meaningless. I used it for derrogatory effect because I know it's still taken that way if I as a white internet person use it (though, hello, unless you know me, you can't tell the color of my skin over the internet).

No black person reclaiming the word would use it the way you did. No gay person would say, "Fvck those subhuman faggots," and mean it.

The word alone has no power and never did, how it's used and the meaning it's used with does. You specifically used it to invoke the hateful, disgusting sentiments that, whether we have an black President or not, continue to make it difficult for blacks to be equal members of society. You can't hide behind apologies, retractions, and claims of progression of the term when you've clearly used it in the most regressive way possible.

Inexcusable no matter how hatefully anyone may have acted in voting. Turnabout is NOT fair play.

[bewitched]

I don't live in California. I couldn't add my direct support to the "no on 8" movement. I live in Kansas where my gay friends are not even able to dream of entering into a legal marriage (or even having it recognized if the are married where it is legal). By stating this, I in no way mean to diminish the real pain felt by those of you who have been directly effected. So...

I am so sorry that bigotry and hatred carried the day. I am so sorry that so many people choose to vilify love and commitment rather than celebrating it as they should. There is so much **** in this world. Death, suffering, war...love should be celebrated, whatever its form.

My heart goes out to you. Let this be a small bump in your road to equality. When that day comes we will all, as humans, be the better for it.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Inexcusable no matter how hatefully anyone may have acted in voting. Turnabout is NOT fair play.

absolutely unfair, dirty tricks. Yes. And G.C. is right, I'm infamous for shooting off my mouth in offensive and hurtful ways and then taking it back when I calm down, regain my better self ... but the pain of the sting likely lingers.


MIND YOU ... if we had a SINGLE black member of the LoT, I would not have used that word. That's no excuse either ... but I would have refrained from hurting someone, though I did not shy from offending.


Still ... my attack and retract behavior is terrible. I work on it from time to time. It gets better, then worse.

I'm pretty riled up, disgusted, disappointed, highly upset and agitated right now ... but that's no excuse for one of my horrible behavior patterns that I'm highly ashamed of.


I'm also highly ashamed that I didn't contribute more than a pittance to the No on 8 campaign, and dropped out of the organized defeat effort - only to devote my unending efforts and spend thousands of dollars on a Halloween Party.

So part of my anger and disgust is fueled my by own guilt.


I'm really sorry. I'd like to be a better person.

[Morrigoon]

Channel 4 is already stationed at the temple, ready for the rally

[BarTopDancer]

If the majority of Yes voters were Jews would you invoke the "k" word?

Inexcusable, unacceptable and frankly the apology really has no meaning after so many other inappropriate comments that were later apologized for. Actions speak louder than words, and while it's easier to ask for forgiveness then permission it gets harder and harder to grant forgiveness for the same thing over and over and over again.

I'm about as equally disgusted with the uses of the N word as I am with people who voted Yes. And saddened that someone I know could actually use that word in that way.

[lizziebith]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

MIND YOU ... if we had a SINGLE black member of the LoT, I would not have used that word. That's no excuse either ... but I would have refrained from hurting someone, though I did not shy from offending.

Just an FYI: we DO have a black member of the LoT. One of my friends outside the internet, who I invited and who may not post very much, but post he most certainly has. Can you guess who?