HCR Passes

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Betty

...For someone like me, on the other side of the coin, every day waiting is another day something terrible can happen and wipe us out. So yes, I do have tunnel vision - with health care being the light at the end of the tunnel.

My cousin (who is of my parents' generation) sent a comic strip around to some family members (thankfully I'm not on his email list) where the "punchline" was that the election of Obama and health care reform were the work of the devil. When my mom, whose daughter is on the verge of being severely screwed in the insurance department because she had the audacity to have cancer while unemployed, wrote back explaining that perhaps not everyone thought that joke was very funny, his response was, "Geez, you take it so personally." Umm, yeah, that's because it's affecting her personally!

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Betty

It's a lot easier to wait for reform to happen when you've got health insurance...

This sums up, I think, one of the major differences I see between myself and many on the other side of the health care reform debate. I have excellent and affordable health insurance. So the reforms (at this point, at least) have little affect on my access to coverage. It's not a personal thing for me. However, I have the ability (thank goodness) to be sympathetic to the plights of others who are less forunate. I have the ability to see beyond my own selfish needs and to support what is best for all Americans.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Betty

And here I was feeling bad that I was the 3rd person to make the same joke - but whatever if you want to single me out.

I found it different because yours implied I wanted to puke because others might get cared for. The other two were things like "I hope maalox is covered for you tummy". Good natured vs. accusatory.

[JWBear]

Because you like big insurance executives, who make millions, denying healthcare to working Americans?

Because you like seeing millions of people go bankrupt every year due to healthcare costs?

Because you like that America is 34th in the world in quality of healthcare?

I could go on.

[Tref]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Because you like big insurance executives, who make millions, denying healthcare to working Americans? Because you like seeing millions of people go bankrupt every year due to healthcare costs? Because you like that America is 34th in the world in quality of healthcare?

I could go on.

Amen, my sister!

[innerSpaceman]

Really, sca, let's have a talk about this, and try to stay away from hyperbole on all sides. Because really, this is the most moderate of measures (flippy's right) and our healthcare system is deeply flawed (JayDubBear is right).

At this point, why not try some things? I would be willing to try some very conservative ideas - and, correct me if I'm wrong - the bill incorporates many conservative notions from pre-hypocrisy days, and thwarts nearly everything actual liberals and progressives wanted to see.

[scaeagles]

It is true that this version of the bill (all 2700 or so pages of it) I am not very well versed in (and I knew much more about earlier versions).

I do not, however, understand, even in my admitted lack of complete understanding of specifically what is in the health bill, how any 2700 page bill (or so I've heard....I cannot claim to have seen nor read it) can be seen as the "most moderate of measures".

However, one thing I will not do is be sucked into the "well, you must be completely for the way things are now because you aren't for this" argument. Some don't know but I have posted here before that I came from a family that declared bankruptcy due to health reasons (my mom died of lupus when I was a teenager after suffering with it for 13 years), and we survived, though the process certainly sucked.

I do suppose, though, that I don't understand why opposition is blamed on conservative "fear mongering". Do the 50+ percent of the population that is opposed to this listen to this conservative "fear mongering"? Perhaps it is rational people who don't simply don't like many of the proposals for whatever reason (even though many rational people do).

It does remain to be seen though what happens with this. It certainly was not the last hurdle for the bill.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

It is true that this version of the bill (all 2700 or so pages of it) I am not very well versed in (and I knew much more about earlier versions).

That's the problem. No one really read all 2700 pages, but people wrote every word on those pages. People that knew it would not be scrutinized before being signed into law. I'm very concerned that any true reforms in this thing will be outweighed by the backroom deals hiding in it.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I do suppose, though, that I don't understand why opposition is blamed on conservative "fear mongering".

The fear mongering comes from the conservative talking heads saying there will be death panels, that people will die now, ERs will be busier, the government is going to decide what treatment you can or can't have. Watch that link I provided. It's to the Colbert Report. The marketing of paranoia is very interesting. It discusses how a PR company was hired to come up with terms like death panel and nuclear option to raise fear and outrage.

Originally Posted by Moonliner

That's the problem. No one really read all 2700 pages, but people wrote every word on those pages. People that knew it would not be scrutinized before being signed into law. I'm very concerned that any true reforms in this thing will be outweighed by the backroom deals hiding in it.

This I am concerned about. The actual HCR part? Happy. But I have this concern about every bill that is passed so it's nothing new.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I do suppose, though, that I don't understand why opposition is blamed on conservative "fear mongering". Do the 50+ percent of the population that is opposed to this listen to this conservative "fear mongering"? Perhaps it is rational people who don't simply don't like many of the proposals for whatever reason (even though many rational people do).

To start, there's the fact that those numbers flip when, instead of just being asked, "Are you in favor of Obama's plan", people are shown what is actually in that plan (soucre). So clearly some not insignificant portion of the population was basing their opinion on a false notion of what the plan entailed.