HCR Passes

[JWBear]

Teabagger heads start exploding in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

[scaeagles]

I feel like puking.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I feel like puking.

Truly, sca, I doubt things will be much different at all. This is really very moderate reform, and many aspects of it were once upon a time supported by conservative leaders. Though I personally think it's mostly just a modest step in the right direction (and I realize you don't at all), time will tell. Meanwhile, I hope you have a health plan that includes Maalox for your upset tummy.

[JWBear]

Because you like big insurance executives, who make millions, denying healthcare to working Americans?

Because you like seeing millions of people go bankrupt every year due to healthcare costs?

Because you like that America is 34th in the world in quality of healthcare?

I could go on.

[Tref]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Because you like big insurance executives, who make millions, denying healthcare to working Americans? Because you like seeing millions of people go bankrupt every year due to healthcare costs? Because you like that America is 34th in the world in quality of healthcare?

I could go on.

Amen, my sister!

[innerSpaceman]

Really, sca, let's have a talk about this, and try to stay away from hyperbole on all sides. Because really, this is the most moderate of measures (flippy's right) and our healthcare system is deeply flawed (JayDubBear is right).

At this point, why not try some things? I would be willing to try some very conservative ideas - and, correct me if I'm wrong - the bill incorporates many conservative notions from pre-hypocrisy days, and thwarts nearly everything actual liberals and progressives wanted to see.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I feel like puking.

If you're going to spew, spew into this




Seriously though, this plan includes so many things that the Republicans wanted back before Obama was even a candidate. I think you should take a step back from your talking heads and really, really look at what actually passed instead of the expected outrage/puking reaction.

Stephen Colbert discusses the marketing of fear.

Maybe if the "Conservatives" who are so outraged watched something other than their conservative fear mongers they would see a whole marketing campaign was behind this outrage.

[scaeagles]

It is true that this version of the bill (all 2700 or so pages of it) I am not very well versed in (and I knew much more about earlier versions).

I do not, however, understand, even in my admitted lack of complete understanding of specifically what is in the health bill, how any 2700 page bill (or so I've heard....I cannot claim to have seen nor read it) can be seen as the "most moderate of measures".

However, one thing I will not do is be sucked into the "well, you must be completely for the way things are now because you aren't for this" argument. Some don't know but I have posted here before that I came from a family that declared bankruptcy due to health reasons (my mom died of lupus when I was a teenager after suffering with it for 13 years), and we survived, though the process certainly sucked.

I do suppose, though, that I don't understand why opposition is blamed on conservative "fear mongering". Do the 50+ percent of the population that is opposed to this listen to this conservative "fear mongering"? Perhaps it is rational people who don't simply don't like many of the proposals for whatever reason (even though many rational people do).

It does remain to be seen though what happens with this. It certainly was not the last hurdle for the bill.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

It is true that this version of the bill (all 2700 or so pages of it) I am not very well versed in (and I knew much more about earlier versions).

That's the problem. No one really read all 2700 pages, but people wrote every word on those pages. People that knew it would not be scrutinized before being signed into law. I'm very concerned that any true reforms in this thing will be outweighed by the backroom deals hiding in it.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I do suppose, though, that I don't understand why opposition is blamed on conservative "fear mongering".

The fear mongering comes from the conservative talking heads saying there will be death panels, that people will die now, ERs will be busier, the government is going to decide what treatment you can or can't have. Watch that link I provided. It's to the Colbert Report. The marketing of paranoia is very interesting. It discusses how a PR company was hired to come up with terms like death panel and nuclear option to raise fear and outrage.

Originally Posted by Moonliner

That's the problem. No one really read all 2700 pages, but people wrote every word on those pages. People that knew it would not be scrutinized before being signed into law. I'm very concerned that any true reforms in this thing will be outweighed by the backroom deals hiding in it.

This I am concerned about. The actual HCR part? Happy. But I have this concern about every bill that is passed so it's nothing new.