The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

and Pelosi said something to the effect of "well, we have to pass it so we will know what's in it!". That was pretty major....

I do believe we discussed this at the time but your quote here isn't correct and completely misrepresents what she said.

The full quote was (bolding mine):

But we have to pass the bill so that you [The National Association of Counties] can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

She knew what was in the bill. Her colleagues knew what was in the bill. She was telling these local government officials that congress needed to get the bill passed so that these local government officials could begin to act on what was in the bill, with certainty, and without the ongoing debate.

But yes, when you take half of one sentence out of a paragraph in a 5 minutes speech and then change one of the pronouns, then it is easy enough to make the speaker look stupid.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

And I completely disagree - I think democrats are way better at the game than republicans.

Okay, I've stepped into the way back machine for this one. I let this gem slide at the time it was posted, but it's been rattling around in the back of my mind since and yesterday's voting and the surrounding discussions agitated back to the forefront.

I seriously can't say this without sounding insulting and if this crosses the line of ad hominem I suppose it will need to be moved, but really...if you truly believe that democrats are better at playing politics than republicans than I honestly think you're delusional.

We're talking about the party that made "death panel" and "birther" household words with nary a whimper of protest from the other side vs. the party that barely managed a single piece of major legislation while in control of both houses and the Presidency (and a knackered version that left them bruised and battered at that). The party that continues to campaign, effectively, as the "small government party" while being no such thing vs. the party that is too afraid of its own shadow to use the fact that their tax plan cuts taxes for most Americans as a campaign talking point. The party that regularly claims as their platform to be the nation's moral compass despite regular transgressions by key members against that very morality vs. the party that didn't want to bad mouth the medical insurance industry to bolster the health care bill lest they seem "anti-business".

I don't think I'm saying anything radical by saying that, over the past 3 decades or so, the Republicans are better at, as a party, delivering a unified and effective political strategy than the Democrats.

[scaeagles]

Only your quote. I did other research on Demint to see from other sources what the issues are and interestingly, those other sources on Demint say that most republicans are against what he is doing. So it is an issue of Demint, not an issue of republicans in general.

Rangel is a dirty tax cheat, but I will not state that all democrats are dirty tax cheats. That would be ridiculous. So you can say what Demint is doing is worse than what any other democrat has done. I would regard what Pelosi did as roughly equivalent. If I wanted to weigh which demonstrates worse behavior by a party, I'd say the Pelosi does, simply because her maneuverings required the vote and consent of her (not long for the world) democrat majority....it wasn't her all by herself.

[scaeagles]

Right wing hate sites....good lord. It's all over youtube for anyone that really wants to find it.

Again, not worth it to go tit for tat, so I'm dropping out....although since your source for you republican quotes is off of a left wing hate site I can't really take it seriously anyway. I suppose I could go on some right wing hate sites to find more outrageous quotes than those!

(That's a joke, by the way - relax.)

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Right wing hate sites....good lord. It's all over youtube for anyone that really wants to find it.

Again, not worth it to go tit for tat, so I'm dropping out....although since your source for you republican quotes is off of a left wing hate site I can't really take it seriously anyway. I suppose I could go on some right wing hate sites to find more outrageous quotes than those!

(That's a joke, by the way - relax.)

When I googled the exact wording you used in your post, all I got were right-wing sites that were screaming about "EVIL MUSLIM SOCIALIST OBAMA". As Alex has posted, the real quote is... well... completely different.

If Huffington Post is a "left wing hate site", then Fox News a far right wing one. I'm sure you'll agree as you seem to like tit-for-tat so much.

[Betty]

What gets me is the last round of unemployment being held up by Republicans crying to be more fiscally conservative and touting that the tax credit would be expiring as an example. They filibustered it and left a whole lot of people without benefits for a month. Yes - they caught up but during that month people still have urgent expenses like groceries, gas to get to work, etc. (not to mention rent!)

Now that the unemloyement thing has passed for the moment, where are those Republicans who were saying the tax credit should expire?

[innerSpaceman]

scaeagles, no offense, but you just got pwned by Alex, the fact-checking machine. Man up and apologize.

[scaeagles]

Indeed I did. I fully withdraw that and admit I did not have that quote in context.

[Prudence]

To use Mr. Stewart's language, the opposition party (currently the Republicans) have a stranglehold on accomplishing anything because there are no 100% solutions. We can't discuss or pass 80% solutions because ZOMG! the American people demand perfection. Not only do we demand perfection, we can't even agree what that is. Everyone gets three squares and a cot? Only deserving people are rewarded? Only God's favorites succeed? Population increases/decreases for particular groups? It doesn't matter, as long as you have nicer stuff than your neighbor?

And, actually, I think the football analogy is apt. At all cost, prevent the other side from scoring! Whether the "score" is harmful or beneficial isn't important. Just keep them at zero!

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Prudence

And, actually, I think the football analogy is apt. At all cost, prevent the other side from scoring! Whether the "score" is harmful or beneficial isn't important. Just keep them at zero!

In football, aside from taking a safety towards the very end of the game for field position purposes, when would it ever be "beneficial" to allow the other team to score