The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Oh you're so right scaeagles. I mean, just LOOK at all the legislation that the Dems have been able to railroad through congress since last January, with zero obstacle from the minority!

There's a good reason the Dems have the reputation of being "inept and ineffectual". The Republicans are flat out better at playing the game.

I'm thinking there was something major called Obamacare that was shoved through without anyone reading and Pelosi said something to the effect of "well, we have to pass it so we will know what's in it!". That was pretty major....yes there was opposition, but I think that's what an opposition party is actually for.

And I completely disagree - I think democrats are way better at the game than republicans.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I'm thinking there was something major called Obamacare that was shoved through without anyone reading and Pelosi said something to the effect of "well, we have to pass it so we will know what's in it!". That was pretty major....yes there was opposition, but I think that's what an opposition party is actually for.

And I completely disagree - I think democrats are way better at the game than republicans.

It's called the "Affordable Health Care Act". "Obamacare" is the dismissive title your side gave it.

Anything that took months of rangling and discussion in Congress, the media, town hall meetings, and in public discussion before being passed can not be considered to have been "shoved through". Plenty of people read it before it was passed, including Republicans. (And if they voted on it without reading it, shame on them!)

I also recall that the most villified provision - the mandate - was actually insisted on by the Republicans, and included by the authors in a laughable attempt to appease obstructionist Republicans and Blue-Dog Democrats.

As for that Pelosi quote, could you please provide a cite? The only places I can find it are on right-wing hate sites. BTW, Here is a list of just as, if not more, outragious quotes from Republicans.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I'm thinking there was something major called Obamacare that was shoved through without anyone reading and Pelosi said something to the effect of "well, we have to pass it so we will know what's in it!". That was pretty major....yes there was opposition, but I think that's what an opposition party is actually for.

Thanks for playing, better luck next time.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

and Pelosi said something to the effect of "well, we have to pass it so we will know what's in it!". That was pretty major....

I do believe we discussed this at the time but your quote here isn't correct and completely misrepresents what she said.

The full quote was (bolding mine):

But we have to pass the bill so that you [The National Association of Counties] can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

She knew what was in the bill. Her colleagues knew what was in the bill. She was telling these local government officials that congress needed to get the bill passed so that these local government officials could begin to act on what was in the bill, with certainty, and without the ongoing debate.

But yes, when you take half of one sentence out of a paragraph in a 5 minutes speech and then change one of the pronouns, then it is easy enough to make the speaker look stupid.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

And I completely disagree - I think democrats are way better at the game than republicans.

Okay, I've stepped into the way back machine for this one. I let this gem slide at the time it was posted, but it's been rattling around in the back of my mind since and yesterday's voting and the surrounding discussions agitated back to the forefront.

I seriously can't say this without sounding insulting and if this crosses the line of ad hominem I suppose it will need to be moved, but really...if you truly believe that democrats are better at playing politics than republicans than I honestly think you're delusional.

We're talking about the party that made "death panel" and "birther" household words with nary a whimper of protest from the other side vs. the party that barely managed a single piece of major legislation while in control of both houses and the Presidency (and a knackered version that left them bruised and battered at that). The party that continues to campaign, effectively, as the "small government party" while being no such thing vs. the party that is too afraid of its own shadow to use the fact that their tax plan cuts taxes for most Americans as a campaign talking point. The party that regularly claims as their platform to be the nation's moral compass despite regular transgressions by key members against that very morality vs. the party that didn't want to bad mouth the medical insurance industry to bolster the health care bill lest they seem "anti-business".

I don't think I'm saying anything radical by saying that, over the past 3 decades or so, the Republicans are better at, as a party, delivering a unified and effective political strategy than the Democrats.