Yes, we can.

[alphabassettgrrl]

While I can see some logic in the selection of Warren, it still disgusts me to think about him getting exposure. I know I'm not going to agree with everything Mr. Obama does, but this is icky.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Ugh, I feel awful about the whole thing. It's just like election day all over again. I couldn't enjoy that because Prop 8 passed, and now I won't enjoy the inauguration.

I understand and empathize with the arguments of both sides. I feel a knee-jerk reaction to defend Obama, because I feel he's a smart guy who wouldn't do this without knowing the implications, and must have meant well. Yet I feel so angry that someone who pushes hate was selected for this honor. He could have picked anyone else. Then I think, most ministers/pastors/whatever have the same point of view anyway. Then I get angry that there is a religious ceremony involved at all. SEPARATE! CHURCH AND STATE! I want to chant it out the window at the top of my lungs.

And when people say it "legitimizes" Warren, I keep thinking about how people reacted regarding talking to enemy leaders. Warren is an enemy leader. But there's a difference between talking to him and inviting him to a place of honor. Right?

Around and around. I just hope that O knows what he's doing. That this really will comfort "the enemy" to the point where we can all talk as Americans......and we can destroy their way of life

No, seriously, I do want everyone at the table, but.....ugh. Just WHEN do I get to enjoy Obama's victory?? Maybe once he gets something real happening as President? I'm saving my confetti and noisemakers for then.

[Not Afraid]

I was disgusted at first, but only because I really dislike Warren and despise his brand of religion. But, I can see where Obama is going with this and I think I'm going to put some faith in him. If Warren's inclusion draws an audience that wouldn't otherwise be there to hear his message, then that's a good thing.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Let me be clear.If Obama said, "I've invited Warren and other community leaders from a around the spectrum on the issue to begin a dialog," I'd have no problem with that. But selecting him for a position of honor in a public ceremony is beyond simply having a dialog.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Let me be clear.If Obama said, "I've invited Warren and other community leaders from a around the spectrum on the issue to begin a dialog," I'd have no problem with that. But selecting him for a position of honor in a public ceremony is beyond simply having a dialog.

And I don't disagree that, on the surface, it is insulting, especially to the people who have worked tirelessly for this cause. I just think there is a bigger picture at play here. I understand the immediate reaction of "how dare he?" but I surely don't think Obama did this for the purpose of insulting people, do you? I think he sees this as a small but important first step towards breaking down the ideological barriers that have divided this nation. Weaken those barriers a little and you might actually have an opportunity to get things done.

Upon further reflection, that round table discussion isn't even possible, as long as people are so entrenched in their positions that they are unwilling to even take a seat at that table. Perhaps this move gets them to consider taking that seat.

[JWBear]

People like Warren have no desire to compromise on gay rights. It's foolish to think you can ever change minds that are set in concrete.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by JWBear

People like Warren have no desire to compromise on gay rights. It's foolish to think you can ever change minds that are set in concrete.

I would say that you are right. I'm not so sure that his followers as all as set in concrete though, although every attack causes that concrete to thicken just a little more.

Besides, who cares, in the grand scheme of things, if his mind is changeable? Change enough people's minds in his congregation and it really doesn't matter.

[Alex]

Just going in circles of course, but I have no problem with "a dialog." This is not a dialog or even really an opportunity to start one.

There is a big difference between "hey, I'd like to talk to you about how we can go about getting you some reasonable religious opinions" and "since I hope someday you'll be a preacher that's a bit less of an ass I'd like you to officiate my wedding."

Of course, I'm still peeved that religion is being brought into a civil governmental event to begin with (and yes, I know it hardly the only religion stuff that will be on display that day).

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Alex

Just going in circles of course, but I have no problem with "a dialog." This is not a dialog or even really an opportunity to start one.

I disagree there there in no opportunity here.

"since I hope someday you'll be a preacher that's a bit less of an ass I'd like you to officiate my wedding."

I don't think that Obama is that naive.

Really, what is the alternative here? That he choose a mainstream religious leader that supports gay marriage? Is there an abundance of those that I'm unaware of? But, assuming one exists that carries even a fraction of the same influence that Warren does, let's say that Obama chooses this person. Those who already support gay marriage might be pleased, but it further alienates Obama from the opposition that he is trying to reach. There is no advantage that I can see because the divide between the two sides only widens.

Of course, I'm still peeved that religion is being brought into a civil governmental event to begin with (and yes, I know it hardly the only religion stuff that will be on display that day).

On this at least, we agree.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

I don't think that Obama is that naive.

I'm confused, because I can't read anything else into what you've said. That is was a political choice, that this doesn't directly address the issue, that it merely opens the door a sliver that maybe someday down the road an opening will arise to sway Warren and/or his followers.

But anyway, let's move on since Obama's choice of poet for the event has been announced.

The presence of poetry really offends me.