The Art of Moving On

[SzczerbiakManiac]

GC, have you heard of the book Sons of the Church: The Witnessing of Gay Catholic Men?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

GC, have you heard of the book Sons of the Church: The Witnessing of Gay Catholic Men?

I just did a little research on it. Interesting. I'd read it.
And the fact that Sister Jeannine Gramick, PhD likes it speaks very highly for it. She's one of the coolest nuns ever.

[Gemini Cricket]

My sister just left me a voice mail to tell me that my father just went to Costco and bought 'Brokeback Mountain' on DVD. He bought it so the family could watch it together. Him, my 2 sisters and my mom...

Holy Moley! This is a huge step for my dad. Mr. Deacon with the Catholic Church and former police sargeant with the police dept.

I think this is good news indeed. He would have never, ever done something like this 8 years ago. My dad totally rocks. I mean, walking the DVD up to the counter at Costco? Mr. Macho? Wow, my dad's the coolest.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

My sister just left me a voice mail to tell me that my father just went to Costco and bought 'Brokeback Mountain' on DVD. He bought it so the family could watch it together. Him, my 2 sisters and my mom...

Holy Moley! This is a huge step for my dad. Mr. Deacon with the Catholic Church and former police sargeant with the police dept.

I think this is good news indeed. He would have never, ever done something like this 8 years ago. My dad totally rocks. I mean, walking the DVD up to the counter at Costco? Mr. Macho? Wow, my dad's the coolest.

Ooh! GC! This is fabulous! Here's to you and your mega cool Dad!

snowflake

[libraryvixen]

Wow GC!! That's awesome!

[bewitched]

I am coming late to this discussion (and I rewrote this several times and I'm still not sure I have it right), however...

It strikes me that your difficulty is not in what you believe, or for that matter what the Catholic Church believes. Rather it is a question of what you do with all of that. For me (I'm an atheistic leaning agnostic, raised Methodist), there is no discrepancy in loving the ceremony of the church while shunning many (most?) of their teachings.

For all that I have turned my back on organized religion, I still find comfort in going to Christmas eve services. The yearly ritual, in which little changes, takes me back to a time when worries were few, when Santa was bringing presents the next day and when all was right with my world. Going to the services now obviously does not mean I want to go back (or for that matter that I have any interest in embracing religion), only that for a short time I can remember the magic of childhood.

I have also found myself on occasion entering a Catholic Church and lighting a candle for someone. It is not the conotation that the church gives it that I seek, it is the feeling within myself that there are times I can do nothing but exist on faith (whatever that faith may be). I also have to say that I find sitting in a church one of the most comforting places to be when I have been in a bad place in my life. Not because of the religion, but because I know that it is a place where so many have come looking for answers to their pain. I think you mentioned being an "old soul", I kind of view churches in the same light.

Many people turn to religion when they seek answers to the unknown. There is obviously a comfort in knowing that there is a reason for things, even if that reason can never be known. I strikes me that what you are looking for is not religion (or Catholicism itself) but a comfortable answer for many things in your life. And it may be that there are no comfortable answers. And it may also be that many of your memories from when you were safe, cocooned and loved are tied to the Catholic church, and church ritual; to feel that again would make things right in your world.

I don't know if I am making sense to you, or even if I am close to the mark. But from my perspective, take what you need from the church and it's services. Make it what you need it to be, not what anyone is telling you it should be. If there is a God, it seems to me that in your worship, he would want you to be true to yourself, not to some supposed "ideal" that a whole bunch of men decided upon long ago. It has been said many times that we are all sinners. None of us meet the "ideal" (okay, I come damn close, but I digress ) so maybe go sit in church, listen to yourself and find out what and where your faith is. And if the Catholic church is where you find it, put your faith there, and don't let anyone tell you that it doesn't fit.

Good luck!

[Gemini Cricket]

I must say, bewitched, that your post totally hit a homerun for me. Lots of lights going on in my head as I read it.

Originally Posted by bewitched

The yearly ritual, in which little changes, takes me back to a time when worries were few, when Santa was bringing presents the next day and when all was right with my world. Going to the services now obviously does not mean I want to go back (or for that matter that I have any interest in embracing religion), only that for a short time I can remember the magic of childhood.

Yes. Absolutely. I have never really thought of it in this way, but there are many comforting memories that I have of sitting at Midnight Mass feeling completely happy. The family is all together, we dressed up, there are decorations all over the place, there are songs to sing, there are presents to open after we get home...

Originally Posted by bewitched

Not because of the religion, but because I know that it is a place where so many have come looking for answers to their pain. I think you mentioned being an "old soul", I kind of view churches in the same light.

When I was younger, I found comfort in sitting in the old churches. The cathedrals and such in my home state and the missions in California. I was always turned off by the churches that were converted cafeterias etc. Recently, Notre Dame in Paris blew me away. Depsite all of the tourists, I found it comforting. The same with Westminster Abbey in London. I'd love to visit the Sistine Chapel someday.

Originally Posted by bewitched

I strikes me that what you are looking for is not religion (or Catholicism itself) but a comfortable answer for many things in your life. And it may be that there are no comfortable answers. And it may also be that many of your memories from when you were safe, cocooned and loved are tied to the Catholic church, and church ritual; to feel that again would make things right in your world.

Absolutely. I know there is no such thing as an easy answer to any question. But seeing how people are so comforted and put at ease by what I condsider to be the black and white world of religion makes me envious at times. But that easy answer environment is not for me. I feel like I live in a world where I'm not part of any majority group whatsoever. I'm not religious, I'm not straight, I'm not white, I'm not rich, I don't shop at Wal*Mart, I don't watch TV, I don't agree with the current Administration, etc. Sometimes I wish I was 'just like everybody else' and didn't have to feel like I have to watch my back. But I know that is fantasy. Maybe that dream (of being a rich white guy with a wife and three kids on a hammock in the backyard of the house I own with the dog and the cat) is total crapola, but sometimes I wish it were just easier for me in this country. But I also think, 'Who wants to be like everyone else?' My mind's a hurricane sometimes.

Originally Posted by bewitched

None of us meet the "ideal" (okay, I come damn close, but I digress ) so maybe go sit in church, listen to yourself and find out what and where your faith is. And if the Catholic church is where you find it, put your faith there, and don't let anyone tell you that it doesn't fit.

Reclaiming my faith in faith. It can be done. I'm not sure if it's at the Catholic Church or not, but I'm hoping I'll find it.

Originally Posted by bewitched

I don't know if I am making sense to you, or even if I am close to the mark.

You made complete sense in your post. I am grateful that you have put your voice into this thread. You're eloquent and hit a lot of bullseyes with me.
Thank you.

[bewitched]

Of course.

[Gemini Cricket]

I just remembered something else. A couple of days ago, my dad asked me how I felt about the whole AFA boycott of Ford. (Oy, did I tell him.) But he said, 'Yeah, I think the AFA's stupid. I mean, I saw your sister's copy of 'The Advocate' and you don't see the AFA boycotting Subaru and all those other companies that advertise there.'
I was shocked. He actually opened the copy of 'The Advocate'. Wow.

[alphabassettgrrl]

GC, that's great that your dad picked up Brokeback.

Bewitched, I liked what you had to say. I always felt I was odd, a non-catholic, to go into a church, and light a candle. Are they going to think me intrusive? I have always tried to be respectful, though I have some issues with religion. I love the beauty of the old churches. I was just at the one in downtown LA, across from Union Station. I love the Missions, though I deplore many of the things that happened under their watch. Mission San Buenaventura is near me, and it's gorgeous. There's just an air of peace to the place. Small garden in the middle, the magnificent church, and it's quiet and gentle and then there's the statue of Mary in the garden, which always has flowers and candles in front of her. Mary's someone I could connect to.

Thank you.