Man Commits Suicide at DLH

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

See, our problem is one of definitions. I view something as a weakness but accept it on those terms. Weakness does not require the assignation of blame in my book, it just is what it is. If something makes life more difficult, it's a weakness, as it robs you of resources (mental, emotional, physical) that you would otherwise allocate towards your goals.

But if you have a weakness, that doesn't mean you're to blame for it. If someone is born with a bad lisp and they dream of becoming a news anchor, guess what, it's a weakness. Maybe not an insurmountable one, but it means they are going to have to allocate extra personal resources toward the goal just to make them equal to their competition.

Being able to identify and accept your weaknesses is how you equip yourself to overcoming them.

But again, I think we're using a different definition of weakness. I view weaknesses as something you accept for what they are, without passing judgment on their origin.

But I think that there is judgment being passed here, although perhaps not intentionally. You have written that you see weakness as the opposite of strength. I think most people would deem strength to be an admirable quality, wouldn't you? And in that regard, it stands to reason that weakness isn't something that is neutral. It is undesirable, and what seems to be implied in some of these posts is that, if only people tried harder, they could fix this undesirable defect.

You can make yourself stronger but you can't really make yourself not have a mental illness. And not only can you not usually combat it on your own - in many cases, you don't even recognize that it exists. With a lisp, at least the problem is staring you in the face and you can make rational decisions on how best to remedy it. With mental illness, often you are fooled into thinking that you aren't the problem - it is the rest of the world that has turned upside-down. Rational decisions don’t even come into play. So, how do you "equip yourself to overcome that?"

[innerSpaceman]

To play the semantics game a little further, I posit that people with cancer do have a weakness. We just won't be rude enough to say so. But if an antelope had cancer, that would be a weakness that might get them picked off by a puma. We just don't particularly care about hurting the antelope's feelings, so we call a spade a spade.

Funny how the same word, weakness, can tend to imply some sort of personal failing when we apply it to a human. But it's possible for Morigoon to have meant it, as she said, in very clinical terms. Too bad so many words are freighted with human judgment. They needn't be.



Oh, except for "The Easy Way Out." That comes with judgment included free.

[€uroMeinke]

I think "weakness" is fine but it requires contest when used alone as an absolute it becomes a problem even in the most Darwinian examples. Certain "diseases" (e.g. Sickle Cell Anemia) while a potential weakness today were a strength before modern medicine caught up with the genetics.

Saying something is a weakness does nothing to further the dialogue on what to do or react to a particular condition, Rather it comes off as a dismissive way of saying, "that's not my problem."

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I think I bristle at the word in the context of disease - mental or otherwise. MBC's answer ("I'd call it an illness") was exactly what I said out loud before I scrolled down and saw it.

Sure - if you want to reduce things to objectivity, an illness can make things harder for someone. So if you want to call that "weak," that's probably apt, in a way.

But I would argue that you can't separate implications from some words - and in this case, even if it's not intended, the word sounds cold, and harsh, and lacking in compassion. And I believe that it's the opposite of the kind of thing someone who, say, is battling depression, needs to hear. Would you say "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your weakness" or "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your illness"?

Also, while in Cindy's strictest terms, the patient might be "weak" compared to someone who is not ill... the most strength I've ever seen in people has been in those who were fighting one illness or another. Even in those strict terms, I would never, ever, ever call my mother "weak" after twelve years of fighting. Because I've often said I can't imagine lasting a fraction of that time with her "weakness" - and her strength.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I think I bristle at the word in the context of disease - mental or otherwise. MBC's answer ("I'd call it an illness") was exactly what I said out loud before I scrolled down and saw it.

Sure - if you want to reduce things to objectivity, an illness can make things harder for someone. So if you want to call that "weak," that's probably apt, in a way.

But I would argue that you can't separate implications from some words - and in this case, even if it's not intended, the word sounds cold, and harsh, and lacking in compassion. And I believe that it's the opposite of the kind of thing someone who, say, is battling depression, needs to hear. Would you say "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your weakness" or "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your illness"?

Also, while in Cindy's strictest terms, the patient might be "weak" compared to someone who is not ill... the most strength I've ever seen in people were in those who were fighting one illness or another. Even in those strict terms, I would never, ever, ever call my mother "weak" after twelve years of fighting. Because I've often said I can't imagine lasting a fraction of that time with her "weakness" - and her strength.

That was on my mind too-

I had an "illness" I had cancer- it took strength to fight it, to make it to every treatment and deal with the toll on my body.

I have also fought depression- it takes strength.

Damn right it's strength when you fight those things- mental or physical.

[innerSpaceman]

Yes, lacking in compassion. Which is why you ascribe it to an antelope, but not to a person. Out of politeness, compassion, warmth and kindness.

I had the same reaction to "the easy way out." Language is a funny thing. That you can't apply the word "weakness" to humans, but can to animals reminds me of nothing so much as languages where certain references must be feminine and some must be masculine.


Anyway, here on the 'net, even with our vast array of smilies , words matter most when body language, facial expression and vocal intonation are all absent.


Of course, we know so much about each other, we can use personalities as a guide, too. Which is why I'm willing to cut Cindy some slack ... and why I won't do the same for Kevy.

[Not Afraid]

Weakness is a judgement expression even in the most banal terms as in "he's got a weak chin". I was never so strong or pulling from my reserves of strength as when I was recovering from disease.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I have also fought depression- it takes strength.

Damn skippy.

I had something else to say, but it's too personal.

So I'll just repeat: damn skippy.