The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by JWBear

You are one of the worst offenders when it comes to the “But, but, but Democrats!” defense to try and excuse something a Republican did.

Here’s another example… If someone is caught stealing, will the judge dismiss the charges when that someone points out to him that someone else stole too? Not likely.

Crimes committed by democratic politicians do not make the crimes of republican politicians go away. Those Republicans still committed those crimes. Any lawmaker, regardless of party, that commits a crime should be relieved of office. No party should be held above the law.

While I am no lover of the Democratic Party, and will not dismiss the illegal actions of a politician from that party, I find there is far more hypocrisy in the Republican Party. I find he current trend of defending the party at all costs – even to the point of putting party loyalty above the good of the country – to be abhorrent. Republican politicians seem incapable of admitting mistakes or accepting blame. This is especially true of the current administration. This is the reason that I will, for the first time in my life, be voting a straight democratic ticket; not because I am loyal to the DNC (I’m not), but because the Republican Party has become too powerful, too corrupt, too greedy, too out of touch. There needs to be a change. Thank the Goddess that the rest of America is coming to that realization as well.

I don't ever say "but but the democrats-" I will point out the things that they do- doesn't ever mean I excuse the same behavior on the right. I'm sorry you have that impression- but it is not factual nor accurate in how I view things.

You see it your way. I disagree. I don't think one party holds the monopoly on hypocrisy.

If anyone would actually kick people out of office for crimes- we would finally be able to start fresh. It won't happen- on either side.

I don't excuse crimes-but I also do not blindly buy into the notion of the right as evil and corrupt- while the left is genuine, caring and able to bring change. The left offers nothing- nothing positive, nothing new.

You know what I think will happen if the dems take congress? They will tick off everyone by raising taxes, trying to give amnesty to illegals, cut and run from the war on terror because they blame us more than our enemies, and they will tie up congress trying to impeach Bush. By the time 2008 rolls around- we'll see who is sick of who.

If you think that is what most of America wants- I'm afraid you are going to be very mistaken.

Bottom line- my life continues just fine no matter who controls congress.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

Hope you all are having fun!

C'mon...jump in. The water is nice and warm

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I don't ever say "but but the democrats-" I will point out the things that they do- doesn't ever mean I excuse the same behavior on the right. I'm sorry you have that impression- but it is not factual nor accurate in how I view things.

You certainly do give that impression.

Originally Posted by Nephythys

You see it your way. I disagree. I don't think one party holds the monopoly on hypocrisy.

Neither do I. But I see far more of it amongst the Republicans.

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I don't excuse crimes-but I also do not blindly buy into the notion of the right as evil and corrupt- while the left is genuine, caring and able to bring change.

That’s not my viewpoint. I don’t think the right is evil, and I don’t hold the left as saints. Life is never that simple. Please do not assume I am simple as well.

The Republican Party has too much power currently. No party should control both Congress and the White House. Power leads to corruption. I used to have respect for the Republican Party. Now… not so much. To much emphasis on retaining power at all cost, too little regard for what is best for the country.

Originally Posted by Nephythys

The left offers nothing- nothing positive, nothing new.

You know what I think will happen if the dems take congress? They will tick off everyone by raising taxes, trying to give amnesty to illegals, cut and run from the war on terror because they blame us more than our enemies, and they will tie up congress trying to impeach Bush.

Is that all you can come up with? Old, empty, tired sloganeering?

They may raise taxes, but could it really make anything worse? The economy is going down the toilet, the Republicans cut taxes for the very rich, and they are bleeding money into Iraq like it’s going out of style. I don’t see much in the way of fiscal responsibility there.

No one is cutting and running from the War on Terror – except Bush. He has done nothing to make the world safer from terrorism. He hasn’t gotten rid of Bin Laden. (Remember him? The guy responsible for 9/11?) And his little war in Iraq has made us much more hated by the Muslim world, replaced a secular government with an Islamic one, and done nothing to stop terrorism. Now he wants to drag us in to another needless war in Iran! I will fully support anyone that has a plan to get us out of that mess and actually go after… you know… terrorists.

If Bush has committed impeachable crimes, then he should be impeached. Notice I said “if”. We don’t know currently because the Republicans are in charge and won’t even investigate.

And when all else fails, using immigrants to scare White America to vote Republican is a good strategy…. “Oh my god… can’t let the Democrats get power – the brown people will get ya!”

Originally Posted by Nephythys

If you think that is what most of America wants- I'm afraid you are going to be very mistaken.

If you think America wants a continuation of the mess we’re in, you have your head in the sand.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

...cut and run from the war on terror because they blame us more than our enemies,...

What do you mean by "cut and run from the war on terror"?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by JWBear

No party should control both Congress and the White House.

Out of curiosity does this mean that if the Democrats with the House and Senate this year that you'll vote Republican for president in 2008 regardless of candidates because that would be too much power for the Democrats?

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by JWBear

.
If Bush has committed impeachable crimes, then he should be impeached. Notice I said “if”. We don’t know currently because the Republicans are in charge and won’t even investigate.

Embarrassed and criticized, yes. Impeached, no. His term will expire in two years. A democratic Congress should spend those years making its case for a Democratic president, not wasting its time on impeachment proceedings that, however called for, will only be viewed as payback for Clinton.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by JWBear

You certainly do give that impression.

I have corrected your impression-don't accuse me of it any longer.

Neither do I. But I see far more of it amongst the Republicans.

...and I see the opposite. It won't change.

That’s not my viewpoint. I don’t think the right is evil, and I don’t hold the left as saints. Life is never that simple. Please do not assume I am simple as well.

Never did. If you expect me to not assume about you- do the same for me.

The Republican Party has too much power currently. No party should control both Congress and the White House. Power leads to corruption. I used to have respect for the Republican Party. Now… not so much. To much emphasis on retaining power at all cost, too little regard for what is best for the country.

Then I also expect you to vote for the opposite party depending on who holds congress in '08. Or else you are as gulity of the hypocrisy you accuse others of.

Is that all you can come up with? Old, empty, tired sloganeering?

I am not sloganeering- I am stating what I believe will happen.

They may raise taxes, but could it really make anything worse? The economy is going down the toilet, the Republicans cut taxes for the very rich, and they are bleeding money into Iraq like it’s going out of style. I don’t see much in the way of fiscal responsibility there.

While I agree there needs to be more fiscal reponsibility- the economy is not going down the toilet. I work in finance- so I am in it daily. You cut taxes for the rich because they pay the majority of taxes. Cutting taxes for people who don't pay much in taxes, or any at all is not cuts- it's wealth redistribution. Very cool if you are a socialist.

No one is cutting and running from the War on Terror – except Bush. He has done nothing to make the world safer from terrorism. He hasn’t gotten rid of Bin Laden. (Remember him? The guy responsible for 9/11?) And his little war in Iraq has made us much more hated by the Muslim world, replaced a secular government with an Islamic one, and done nothing to stop terrorism. Now he wants to drag us in to another needless war in Iran! I will fully support anyone that has a plan to get us out of that mess and actually go after… you know… terrorists.

I disagree- but I don't have time to debate it. Maybe someone else feels up to it.

And when all else fails, using immigrants to scare White America to vote Republican is a good strategy…. “Oh my god… can’t let the Democrats get power – the brown people will get ya!”

OOO race baiting. How impressive. Not immigrants JW- ILLEGAL immigrants. If you can't see the damage illegal immigration is doing to this country I can't help you. I don't care what color an illegal is- cause guess what, we used to have a huge problem with white euro illegals- same problem.

Spare me your reflective bigotry- it's insulting and not worth notice. Disgusting tactic.

If you think America wants a continuation of the mess we’re in, you have your head in the sand.

We'll see shall we- the real poll is at the voting booth.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

You cut taxes for the rich because they pay the majority of taxes.

In 2001, the top 10% of the US population owned 71% of the wealth in the nation, and that's been trending higher since then. But in 2003, that same top 10% accuonted for 66% of tax revenue. That doesn't jive. That means, despite complaining about how unfairly our gradient tax system is, the wealthiest people in this country pay a smaller percentage of their wealth in taxes then those lower than them. The wealthy have far more opportunity to shelter their wealth than those in the middle and lower classes that don't have vast amounts of extra capital to sock away. So even though their income tax rate on paper is lower, they are giving a higher percentage of their pay checks in taxes. And yet, people continue to complain that the wealthy are treated unfairly by our tax system. Lord.

[Nephythys]

I don't think they are treated unfairly- but they do pay the majority of taxes. Complaining about tax cuts for the rich-the people who pay more taxes- is just a class warfare tactic.

Taxes should be lowered all over- but it is disingenuous to gripe about giving tax cuts to people who pay more in taxes. I seriously question the motivation of anyone who makes those complaints- is it really tax related, or just class envy and a desire to stick it to people with more money and force them to redistribute their wealth to people who have not earned it.

The top 1% pay over a third, 34.27% of all income taxes. (Up from 2003: 33.71%) The top 5% pay 54.36% of all income taxes (Up from 2002: 53.80%). The top 10% pay 65.84% (Up from 2002: 65.73%). The top 25% pay 83.88% (Down from 2002: 83.90%). The top 50% pay 96.54% (Up from 2002: 96.50%). The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.46% of all income taxes (Down from 2002: 3.50%). The top 1% is paying nearly ten times the federal income taxes than the bottom 50%! And who earns what? The top 1% earns 16.77% of all income (2002: 16.12%). The top 5% earns 31.18% of all the income (2002: 30.55%). The top 10% earns 42.36% of all the income (2002: 41.77%); the top 25% earns 64.86% of all the income (2002: 64.37%) , and the top 50% earns 86.01% (2002: 85.77%) of all the income.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

a desire to stick it to people with more money and force them to redistribute their wealth to people who have not earned it.

Like children, teachers and veterans.