Religious Freedom

[wendybeth]

Actually, Prudence summed it up quite nicely for me. Not in the mood, Alex- my post wasn't intended to be anything other than an observation and expression of dismay at what people do in the name of religion, and it wasn't even particularily original. If you'd like to start a discourse on wherever it is you seem to be trying to lead this, then by all means go right ahead, but I am really not interested in this conversation anymore.

[Alex]

observation and expression of what? The sentence is missing a word.

And again, fair enough on not wanting to discuss it. But when you find other faithss lacking, I'll be interested in the basis by which you do that. I don't feel I'm trying to take it anywhere beyond where you took it yourself, but that's fine, I"ll drop it until the next time.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

observation and expression of what? The sentence is missing a word.

And again, fair enough on not wanting to discuss it. But when you find other faithss lacking, I'll be interested in the basis by which you do that. I don't feel I'm trying to take it anywhere beyond where you took it yourself, but that's fine, I"ll drop it until the next time.

Sorry- edited for clarification. I had another post, but an error 504 message kept popping up and wouldn't let me post it. I copied it and tried again, but it still wouldn't let me. For some reason, it let me post the less verbose reply above, and I took that as a sign.

[Betty]

This isn't exactly religion - but under my definition of "spirituality" - if you're going to put a label on it...

I believe that there is a some "life force" (for lack of a better phrase) that's in everything alive - from people to trees. Something that makes them alive - electricity type of thing that makes each person grow, age, heart beat etc...

That "life force" can affect other things and other people - in both good ways and bad - and that life force is apparent in very minor ways as well. It connects people in ways as silly as my making for dinner the very thing my husband has eaten for lunch (over and over and over again.) To the point now that I will email him in the afternoon and tell him: So, you had spaghetti for lunch and he'll reply back and laugh knowing that I was planning that for dinner and he'd aleady eaten it.

The same sort of thing when large groups of people pray. I don't believe it's a man in the sky doing anything - but all those people focusing their energy on the same thing can have an effect.

We are all good. We are all bad. We all make choices everyday that affect ourselves and everyone else and the energy or life force is affected by those decisions.

I've been christian and wiccan and various points in my life. I really liked wicca but had a hard time with the god and goddess feature. I think I identify with the energy of wicca, but not so much to praying to any sort of entity.

I have been known to repeat "nee stell thu" over and over because in high school I read a "spell" book which used that phrase as something to say when doing a protection spell. It sounds rather silly putting it down like that - but I do it anyway. It's a way for me to focus my thought on protecting what I'm interested in. Similar to prayer I suppose.\

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Wow, how did I miss this? I don't know how I can muster my thoughts on the subject of the JW's because there’s a long history. I was born into that "religion" and was part of it until my mid teens. I don't know the extent of NGU and Traci's experiance as a kid in that atmosphere, but I can tell you I think most of my "issues" stems from the type of person my parents are/were, particularly my dad. My dad is selfish and a total jerk. That said I'm sure the teachings were taken in different context from NGU and others. I thought my family was normal and that the beliefs were normal right up until I was in school and I found out I was very very different. Being taken out of class during "holiday" celebrations (birthdays, Christmas, Halloween) not doing the pledge (I still don't know the whole thing) and not associating with other kids beyond who went to the "Kingdom Hall."

SO as I got older I became the weird guy in school and up until I stopped participating in the religion, I continued to be the weird guy. There were no parties, no real friends, and no social stuff like going to the movies. Dating was out of the question. Collage was out of the question. Etc. etc. I could go on but...

Anyway, I stopped going and soon after my parents divorced. The JW's gave my mom serious problems to the extent she had a restraining order on them. My dad is still very active and can not get thru a conversation with me or my sisters without "preaching" to us.

I don’t' consider the JW's a religion really but more along the lines of a Cult. Its extremely narrow minded, bigoted and very self important IMHO. But, like what was mentioned before, there are some good people I've met and I think try to do "the good thing" I guess. I think any religion where ultimate control is the focus point of its teachings is just wrong. IMHO religion is about one's mind, ideas, beliefs and what they believe to be right, not someone else telling them what to believe or think and that's pretty much the main point of the JWs.

For me, I've been "over" the experience for some time. Like everyone's childhood, those experiences resonate in each of our lives as mine does in my life. I can't change the past and those experiences do show up all the time, but you try to overcome them and to varying degree's that happens. But that's a whole other chapter.

Glad you're working it out T.

NGU you know you can talk to me anytime about it if you want.

[JWBear]

I'm a religion??? The church of JW??? Who knew!

[lashbear]

Originally Posted by JWBear

I'm a religion??? The church of JW??? Who knew!

Show us yer canticles.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Yeah, well, spellcheck put a "E" in there and I had to correct it.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

But when you find other faithss lacking, I'll be interested in the basis by which you do that.

I'm pretty sure that Wendybeth was saying she found others' ACTIONS lacking, not their faith specifically. I don't believe she has a problem with others having differing dogmatic beliefs; she has a problem with their self-righteous actions in defense of their religion.

There are plenty of Catholics who don't bomb abortion clinics. There are plenty of Muslims who aren't violent. It's the extremists who bother me, because their fanaticism obscures the goodness that their religion is supposed to inspire. I suspect that this is what Wendy is talking about.

And I don't know about Wendy, but I really respect what Christ had to say (even if it's only attributable to the oral tradition.) In the Bible, much of what is said by Christ has to do with loving and forgiving others and being peaceful. Regardless of who said it, in my opinion, it's a good way to live. But then, I also like to reach out and see what others have to say about how to live. Buddhism, especially, has some great philosophies that help me day-to-day.

Why do I accept some religious philopsophies and not others? Because I have no desire to be told how to think; because I like to come to my own conclusions. I take a piece from this and a piece from that and I use what feels useful to me. Just like you do, Alex; you simply find different things useful.

[wendybeth]

Pretty much right on, LS!

I truly don't care for proselytizing, hence the utter lack of interest with engaging in any conversations regarding religion. I am still a bit taken aback by Alex's interpretation of what I said, but that's just not my problem.