The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Gn2Dlnd]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I still don't get the issue- I really can not wrap my brain around why anyone CARES!

I'm not sure I understand. You don't get why anyone cares if Gay people get married, or why Gay people would want to get married? If it's the latter, it has to do not only with equality, but with visitation rights in jails and hospitals, custodial rights with children, health benefit rights, banking arrangements, inheritance issues, and so on. I've had many friends find themselves in dire circumstances when a partner has died from AIDS, only to have the family of the deceased claim all property. Or to be denied visitation rights in the hospital because they're not blood relations. Many of us have resorted to lying to get into the hospital room of a partner. Marriage may come with a lot of drawbacks, but the alternative leaves many of us with no recourse when a partner is in trouble.

[Alex]

Oh and just for the record, Mr. Rangel's issue is that minorities compromise more than 30% of the military and he says:

Since minorities make up about 30% of the population in general I assume this wouldn't be a bad thing. I assume it is meant that 30% of the military is black.

Taking a quick look into it, what is interesting to me is that while blacks are wildly overrepresented it looks like (if Fort Bragg is a reasonable sampling) whites are not particularly underrepresnted. 58% of Fort Bragg is white which is about in line with the general population (about 60%). So it looks like while one minority is way over represented in the army other minorities are way under represented.

Interesting. I will have to remember to look into whether Bragg is representative.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Gn2Dlnd

I'm not sure I understand. You don't get why anyone cares if Gay people get married, or why Gay people would want to get married? If it's the latter, it has to do not only with equality, but with visitation rights in jails and hospitals, custodial rights with children, health benefit rights, banking arrangements, inheritance issues, and so on. I've had many friends find themselves in dire circumstances when a partner has died from AIDS, only to have the family of the deceased claim all property. Or to be denied visitation rights in the hospital because they're not blood relations. Many of us have resorted to lying to get into the hospital room of a partner. Marriage may come with a lot of drawbacks, but the alternative leaves many of us with no recourse when a partner is in trouble.

I don't get why anyone cares if gay people get married- I just don't get it.

I heard an ad that compared gay marriages among straight marriages to counterfeit dollars among real money. The ad was stupid- gay people being married doesn't make a bit of difference to if I am married or not.

I just have not seen any reasonable argument against it-

I don't even but the idea that if you have gay marriage you will have to legalize bigamy or polygmy or other things-

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I don't get why anyone cares if gay people get married- I just don't get it.

I heard an ad that compared gay marriages among straight marriages to counterfeit dollars among real money. The ad was stupid- gay people being married doesn't make a bit of difference to if I am married or not.

I just have not seen any reasonable argument against it-

I don't even but the idea that if you have gay marriage you will have to legalize bigamy or polygmy or other things-

I care because I feel denying gays the same legal right I would have as a straight person being married is a form of totally ridiculous discrimination. The religious issue is one that need not even be adressed with a civil ceremony.

I feel that the Comodore stated my position on this issue exactly. I've seen several friends in the same boat the Comodore spoke of when their partner passed away or was hospitalized. To me it is unconscionable that a couple in love, a couple willing to make a life commitment is denied because the sole reason to deny is that the couple is of the same sex.

As for you're not getting why people care, I suppose it depends entirely on the point of view you are examining. But I am assuming you are referring to the side that is so bitterly against gay marriage, am I right here?

[Nephythys]

I've said that now twice.

I don't know how to make it clearer.

[JWBear]

I think what Nephy is saying (and I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong) is that she doesn't get why people are opposed to gay marriage.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by JWBear

I think what Nephy is saying (and I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong) is that she doesn't get why people are opposed to gay marriage.

Exactly.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I've said that now twice.

I don't know how to make it clearer.

I think the confusion is because it's really common to see people making the opposite argument say "I don't get why you care" to those who want equality. "It's just a piece of paper, why do you care?" So a lot of people have a knee-jerk, "What the hell do you mean, why do I care?!" reaction to that, so the rest can get lost in that blur (I know it took me a couple times to figure out that you meat you don't care from the other direction the first time this discussion was had lo those many boards ago).

[Nephythys]

ah-

To be clear- I don't get why people are opposed to it- because I don't see what difference it really makes.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by JWBear

I think what Nephy is saying (and I'm sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong) is that she doesn't get why people are opposed to gay marriage.

Thank you JW