That's 2 (Gerald Ford)

[Alex]

Yes, and according to legend when Adams died his last words were "Jefferson survives." He, of course, was unaware that Jefferson had died hours earlier.

This is likely a bit of historical mythology, though. All that's known for sure is that he said "Thomas Jefferson" shortly before dying, the context was unintelligible.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

This is likely a bit of historical mythology, though. All that's known for sure is that he said "Thomas Jefferson" shortly before dying, the context was unintelligible.

But mythology supported by more than mere conjecture. There was a vein running through correspondence between the two men about "holding on" until the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. It's likely as not to have been the subject of Adams' dying ponderances about T.Jefferson.





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[Alex]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

But mythology supported by more than mere conjecture. There was a vein running through correspondence between the two men about "holding on" until the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. It's likely as not to have been the subject of Adams' dying ponderances about T.Jefferson.

No, it is supported by the wishful thinking and hyperbole of contemporary eulogists. And matches with later conjecture. The people who began the "Thomas Jefferson survives" last words story had no knowledge of the correspondence between Jefferson and Adams.


It's a nice story and a perfectly good piece of hagiography and historical myth-making. It has value as that. I was just pointing out that there is no evidence of it actually happening the way it has come to be described (the only person present when he said it said she couldn't understand what he was saying). Just persnickety myth piercing on my part.

Like noting that Gerald Ford never actually literally said (as so many have come to believe) "drop dead" to New York City.





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[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

No, it is supported by the wishful thinking and hyperbole of contemporary eulogists. And matches with later conjecture. The people who began the "Thomas Jefferson survives" last words story had no knowledge of the correspondence between Jefferson and Adams.

So because the original conjecture did not have the support of later-discovered corroborative facts, it was "wishful thinking?"

Perhaps it was prescience, or intuition. Even if the story was, at first, pure speculation... the fact that it was later supported by letters between the two ex-presidents puts it squarely in the realm of probability, imo.



In any event, I will believe the charming and spooky tale about Adams and Jefferson until the day I die .... at which time, I will gasp with my last, clutching breath, "Alex Still Lives!"

[Alex]

Yes, that is pretty much the definition of "wishful thinking." With no evidence that something actually happened other than the possibility existing that it might have, deciding that it did in fact happen. That's wishful thinking.

But why isn't it enough that they died on the same the day? Why is it necessary to add something to the story to make it "better?" There is no later corroboration that John Adams said "Thomas Jefferson survives." He wasn't very lucid in his final days and may just as well have been saying "I just had the strangest dream of Thomas Jefferson riding a flying donkey while bitching about the Alien and Sedition Act."

I'd put it in the realm of possibility. The people who made claims as to what he said weren't anywhere near the man when he supposedly said them and Louisa Smith (the only person in the room with him) never made any claims on the matter beyond that he said "Thomas Jefferson."

Since I'm interested in this stuff (as my original post indicates I have some interest in dead presidents) if you know where I could find information about this correspondence between Jefferson on the topic of the 50th anniversary I'd be most grateful. I've never heard that before and the book I've read most directly focused on the topic (American Jubilee by Andrew Burstein, about the mythology surrouding the Founding Fathers) doesn't, so far as I recall, mention it either.

I expect you'll outlive me by decades, Steve, so if you do utter those as your last words it'll mean your final moments also weren't lucid.

[Alex]

RStar. The presidents who died in June/July are below.

13 presidents. 12 of them in the 19th century. Just one in 20th. Half of our first 24 presidents died in those two months. Just one of the next 15.

My "the birth of modern air conditioning allowed a more random distribution of presidential death" theory was off the cuff. But I'm liking it more.

Winter would now appear to be the more common time to die. Among the first 24 to die, only four did so in December through February. Among the the 15 post-1901 deaths six have done so.

Or I'm just finding signicance in small samples. As I recall there is some three month window where no president had a birthday until Clinton was elected. I'm sure astrologers were big on that one.

John Adams in Quincy, Massachussetts
Thomas Jefferson in Charlottesville, Viriginia
James Madison in Montpelier, Virigina
James Monroe in New York City, New York
Andrew Jackson in Nashville, Tennessee
Martin Van Buren in Kinderhook, New York

(That's six of the first eight presidents that died in June or July)

James K. Polk in Nashville, Tennesse (he was already sick when he left office, though; he only made it 3 months beyond his term)
Zachary Taylor in Washington, D.C. (while in office; caues unknown but heat stroke is one of the candidates)
James Buchanan in Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Andrew Johnson in Greenville, Tennessee
Ulysses S. Grant in Mt. McGregor, New York
Grover Cleveland in Princeton, New Jersey
Ronald Reagan in Los Angeles, California

[Tref]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Yes, and according to legend when Adams died his last words were "Jefferson survives." He, of course, was unaware that Jefferson had died hours earlier ...

Ironically, Gerald Ford's last words were, "the Godfather of Soul survives ..."