Chastity Rings

[3894]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

And yet, I have to wonder what's objectively wrong with sex at 13 when nature clearly designed (most) humans to be quite ready for sex at 13 (and well, because I was having sex at 13 ... and the girl was somebody's daughter).

Lots of cultures would agree with you (pre-marital sex - often promiscuous - for young teen girls and boys).

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

CP, you're right - there are innumerable valuable lessons. For us, the linking of the ring to the sex talk is because we link sex to marriage, and marriage typically involves the exchange of rings.

Off the top of my head - concepts that, to me, are just as important to healthy marriages/relationships as good sex habits: Trust, sharing, commitment, empathy, responsibility, honesty. I still don't get why "not having sex until marriage" is the one that gets the ring.

The whole concept of "pure" relates to the biblical concept of sexual purity. This is the standard the we (speaking of my family) try to live up to but inevitably fall short of.

Ok, right there is the problem that you're not getting. You're saying you try to live up to this purity concept but "fall short". From that we infer that other people that decide to have sex earlier are definitely "falling short". This in turn says that people that have sex when they feel they have reached the correct point to do so are UNPURE. This insults all those people and I think that's wrong.

This is my last post on this - I don't think I could make it any more clear than that.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Ok, right there is the problem that you're not getting. You're saying you try to live up to this purity concept but "fall short". From that we infer that other people that decide to have sex earlier are definitely "falling short". This in turn says that people that have sex when they feel they have reached the correct point to do so are UNPURE. This insults all those people and I think that's wrong.

This is the bible's stance on it. I disagree, and largely think the bible is full of crap. But that's what it says.

[Alex]

Eh, we all have areas where we've established what we think should be universal standards of behavior towards which everybody should strive. And we think them failures (at minimum, sometimes we think the failure should be punished) if they don't.

Different people just include different things in that category.

There really isn't any way to say (whether publicly or within a community of similar thinkers, or just to yourself) "there are standards of behavior that are good for reasons completely external to myself" without being viewed as judging the people who don't live up to it, even if they don't agree in the first place.

I do agree that it seems to odd (I'm judging scaeagles for falling short of my view of ideal behavior) to commemorate this one point in what he tries to teach his children. But then I think celebrating birthdays is wildly narcissistic, wedding rings are odd (yes, I wear one but only because it is important to Lani and that makes it important to me), hanging your high school graduation tassel from your rear view mirror mildly pathetic, tombstones kind of creepy, and war memorials shallow gestures.

All in all I find the personal and societal urge to look backwards and to publicly proclaim the private to be a pathology to which I'm immune (and, yes, I recognize that technically it is not society that is pathological but me that is too some degree sociopathic).

I don't really care that other people do these things (I find it odd, but they aren't hurting me so I don't really care) and don't view any of it as a judgment on me, even if it is. I'm sure that I do many things scaeagles would consider immoral and I'm pretty sure he does at least one thing I consider immoral.

Maybe we should all wear jewelry professing all our beliefs and behaviors so that we can properly and immediately judge everybody else. Or maybe stop making public declarations of our personal beliefs and behaviors so we don't feel compelled to judge and be judged.

[SacTown Chronic]

We to try to teach our children lessons that will stick with them for life, so chastity rings make no sense to us. Sex talks with our children tend to be focused more on the "who" than the "when".


Now a ring that serves as a promise to not date dickheads of questionable character might be something I'd be interested in.

[3894]

Yes but are chastity rings really intended as a symbol for the wearer or an identifier to others? That's my main question in this.

[SacTown Chronic]

My feeling is that they are an identifier to others.

(As is my wedding ring. I'm with Alex on this one.... I don't wear a ring for me, I wear it for my wife. My druthers would be to wear no jewelry at all.)


A true promise made to oneself without the forces of external pressure would, imo, probably be something more private and discreet than a ring displayed to the world.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by 3894

Yes but are chastity rings really intended as a symbol for the wearer or an identifier to others? That's my main question in this.

It it probably an identifier to others. Sort of like the "Slut Ring" I wore when I was younger.

[Nephythys]

I think it is a symbol to the wearer.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It can be either and I'm sure it means different things to different people.

Like I said before, I don't take issue with this kind of thing stemming from parents' approaches to communicating with their children. It's not a technique I would use, nor would I wait until they've reached puberty to begin educating my children, but that's not my decision to make for others.

What irritates me is the pushing of the rings in the context of some sort of program or in an effort to get the kids to identify with some sort of collective pledge or promise. And I think the results of that study to a very good job of illustrating why it irks me.