Thoughts are now being censored

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

He was saying what if, and honestly, even I have wondered sometimes what it would be like.

Plus he's 18. So it will never go away if they succeed in charging him.

Exactly. Even if he isn't directly effected by the recent shootings, everyone is. In some way or another. They should help kids deal with this.

Being 18, he isn't a little kid and not quite yet an adult. He is probably quite troubled with the events. He needs counseling.

I always ask my son if they talk about certain things at school and the normal answer is no. All of these things are in their heads, on their minds.

They ask 'What if?' about everything. We are supposed to help them find the answers and help them be {feel?} secure in this world.

[MouseWife]

Counseling over punishment.

He is obviously confused and needs help. Not that he is 'messed up', just confused with all that is going on.

I think back to when I was a little girl, we were fed a lot of things. I remember hearing some sort of alarm {I know my husband remembers what they are called as we've discussed this before} that would go off daily. I think in case of attack? Something
military.

Cancers, other illnesses, wars, drive bys, school shootings....it is pretty heavy stuff for kids. I think he was getting it out somehow.

And, 18 isn't an adult. {not that anyone questioned that}

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

Well, yeah, but I was choosing between what they did and what they could have done.

How about this - they could have given the kid his A and not made it seem bad for him to articulate where his imagination takes him.

Originally Posted by MouseWife

He is obviously confused and needs help. Not that he is 'messed up', just confused with all that is going on.

Huh? I wrote and thought about things like that when I was a teen. Isn't thinking about doing crazy things what being a teenager is all about?

I'm with Alex on this one.

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

Originally Posted by MouseWife

Group talks can work out problems. That is why talk shows are popular.

I just have to point out that just because something is on TV, it doesn't make it true. I do hope you're kidding. (Not that there's anything wrong with group talks.)

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

How about this - they could have given the kid his A and not made it seem bad for him to articulate where his imagination takes him.

But that isn't what was decided, we are not talking about what should or could have been done. But what they decided to do after the fact.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Huh? I wrote and thought about things like that when I was a teen. Isn't thinking about doing crazy things what being a teenager is all about?

To quote scaegles "I wonder if anyone thinks the kid to be disturbed, or if they just don't want to be held accountable should he shoot someone and the media begins probing them as the why they didn't reach out to the obvious cries for help as denoted in his writings. It's a CYA."

Sounds to me why this teacher did what she did.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I'm with Alex on this one.

I am actually not against him. As a parent, if my child were facing these issues {which he is, we can't go back and give him that 'A'} I would rather he have counseling than go to jail. Ultimate 'rather', being of course, to drop the matter completely. Perhaps the 'counseling' would do that? But, I haven't heard that being an offer, to drop the whole thing?

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

LOL Around here? You're kidding, right?

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I just have to point out that just because something is on TV, it doesn't make it true. I do hope you're kidding. (Not that there's anything wrong with group talks.)

You can point that out but I didn't say anything about believing people on t.v. And, I'm not kidding. I know that certain subjects on certain talk shows can really help. You are not considering the masses of people who don't have groups to talk with. People to talk to.

Everyone doesn't have a group of friends to debate with, laugh with, or to bounce jokes/ideas like that off of. That is reality.

If his parents can fight any of it, I would. But, if they only have two choices, well, you know mine.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

I still develop a suicide plan almost daily. Just something I think about in quiet movies; not at all suicidal, just curious how I would do it.

"Today...how would I do it so that Lani is caused minimal anxiety..."

"Today...how would I do it so that makes the news..."


Anyway, if I were the kid and given the choice between facing these charges and going into counseling (and I don't feel I need counseling, it may well be the case that this kid has exhibited a suite of problems that aren't mentioned in the article), then I'd face the charges. There's (should be) no way they'd get a conviction and if they get you into counseling against your will they've won.

[3894]

1. Eh, it was a bad assignment, especially in the light of the VA Tech murders. When you teach, you learn not to do this kind of stuff, just like you learn not to assign anything about families and on and on and on.

2. What purpose did the assignment serve? Just putting down the first thing that comes into your head is not creative writing. It's automatic writing and the Surrealists loved it for getting in touch with the subconscious. Ask someone to do automatic writing and turn it in and you're going to get all kinds of violent and sexy stuff. Automatic writing is far more a clinical tool than an artistic one. Actual creative writing requires far more discipline and skill than just writing the first thought that comes into your head.

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by 3894

2. What purpose did the assignment serve? Just putting down the first thing that comes into your head is not creative writing. It's automatic writing and the Surrealists loved it for getting in touch with the subconscious. Ask someone to do automatic writing and turn it in and you're going to get all kinds of violent and sexy stuff. Automatic writing is far more a clinical tool than an artistic one. Actual creative writing requires far more discipline and skill than just writing the first thought that comes into your head.

This really struck an idea into my head. Perhaps the teacher/principal felt that they needed to do this to see what was going on inside the kids' heads. I don't know.

[Strangler Lewis]

I don't know what Illinois's disorderly conduct statute says, but in California it's fairly clear that actual threats of violence to a targeted person or his family are criminal. On the other hand, the statute "is not violated by mere angry utterances or ranting soliloquies, however violent. One may, in private, curse one's enemies, pummel pillows, and shout revenge for real or imagined wrongs--safe from section 422 sanction.”

If the question is could an assignment be deemed the opportunity for a student to make an actual criminal threat, the answer would have to be yes, although that would be a jury question. There's a California case where a student in art class painted a picture of himself shooting his teacher (not his art teacher) in the head. Of course, he was convicted, but the court of appeal reversed because there was no evidence that the student anticipated showing the painting to the teacher in question or that he knew that the teacher would see the painting.

I don't think what the kid wrote can be interpreted as an actual threat. Even if it could, then you'd get into interesting issues of entrapment if school teachers are now effectively agents of law enforcement for purpose of ferreting out antisocial thoughts.

Life is a law school hypo.