Thoughts are now being censored

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

Well, yeah, but I was choosing between what they did and what they could have done.

How about this - they could have given the kid his A and not made it seem bad for him to articulate where his imagination takes him.

Originally Posted by MouseWife

He is obviously confused and needs help. Not that he is 'messed up', just confused with all that is going on.

Huh? I wrote and thought about things like that when I was a teen. Isn't thinking about doing crazy things what being a teenager is all about?

I'm with Alex on this one.

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

Originally Posted by MouseWife

Group talks can work out problems. That is why talk shows are popular.

I just have to point out that just because something is on TV, it doesn't make it true. I do hope you're kidding. (Not that there's anything wrong with group talks.)

[scaeagles]

If you don't think like the masses, you need help.

If you think things that the establishment thinks are harmful, you need help, and God help you if you put those thoughts on paper or say them.

It is nothing different than the Imus thing or a campus speech code. It makes me sick.

Words are deemed to have special power regardless of any accompanying action.

I wonder if anyone thinks the kid to be disturbed, or if they just don't want to be held accountable should he shoot someone and the media begins probing them as the why they didn't reach out to the obvious cries for help as denoted in his writings. It's a CYA.

It's this way in politics. God help you if you don't believe in man made global warming (and even if you say you do, you can go ahead and fly on your private jets to political debates because you're important, damn it, but that's another story), or if you go onto a campus with protesters who have no desire to hear what you say or even let others hear what you want to say.

What separates this from the VA Tech incident is this kid hasn't done anything illegal. Leading up to the VA Tech incident, the shooter had been detained and ruled unstable, but in an odd twist, he couldn't be stopped from going to school.

How about we start holding people accountable for what they do and not for what they think? If that had happened at VA Tech, those 32 people would still be alive.

[wendybeth]

The teacher encourages the kids to write without fear of being censored, then turns his writings over to the principal, who then turns the essay over to the cops......Judas priest. So much for not censoring. How ironic that his plans to become a Marine are now in jeopardy as a result of this little exercise.

[RStar]

First of all, I think it was wrong fro the teacher to turn the paper over to authorities. It doesn't say if she first went to the school counsler or principal for advice. But she broke the trust with her students by doing that.

Second, I don't know if that line was taken out of text. Was it a quote of some character in a short story? If not, the statement that it would be funny if he had sex with dead bodies he had just shot was very sick and demented. I never had thoughts like that when I was his age, and never will. If that is what is going through his head, then yes, he needs counseling.

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

How about this - they could have given the kid his A and not made it seem bad for him to articulate where his imagination takes him.

But that isn't what was decided, we are not talking about what should or could have been done. But what they decided to do after the fact.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Huh? I wrote and thought about things like that when I was a teen. Isn't thinking about doing crazy things what being a teenager is all about?

To quote scaegles "I wonder if anyone thinks the kid to be disturbed, or if they just don't want to be held accountable should he shoot someone and the media begins probing them as the why they didn't reach out to the obvious cries for help as denoted in his writings. It's a CYA."

Sounds to me why this teacher did what she did.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I'm with Alex on this one.

I am actually not against him. As a parent, if my child were facing these issues {which he is, we can't go back and give him that 'A'} I would rather he have counseling than go to jail. Ultimate 'rather', being of course, to drop the matter completely. Perhaps the 'counseling' would do that? But, I haven't heard that being an offer, to drop the whole thing?

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

LOL Around here? You're kidding, right?

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I just have to point out that just because something is on TV, it doesn't make it true. I do hope you're kidding. (Not that there's anything wrong with group talks.)

You can point that out but I didn't say anything about believing people on t.v. And, I'm not kidding. I know that certain subjects on certain talk shows can really help. You are not considering the masses of people who don't have groups to talk with. People to talk to.

Everyone doesn't have a group of friends to debate with, laugh with, or to bounce jokes/ideas like that off of. That is reality.

If his parents can fight any of it, I would. But, if they only have two choices, well, you know mine.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Perhaps I shouldn't post what I still sometimes daydream about...

I still develop a suicide plan almost daily. Just something I think about in quiet movies; not at all suicidal, just curious how I would do it.

"Today...how would I do it so that Lani is caused minimal anxiety..."

"Today...how would I do it so that makes the news..."


Anyway, if I were the kid and given the choice between facing these charges and going into counseling (and I don't feel I need counseling, it may well be the case that this kid has exhibited a suite of problems that aren't mentioned in the article), then I'd face the charges. There's (should be) no way they'd get a conviction and if they get you into counseling against your will they've won.

[3894]

1. Eh, it was a bad assignment, especially in the light of the VA Tech murders. When you teach, you learn not to do this kind of stuff, just like you learn not to assign anything about families and on and on and on.

2. What purpose did the assignment serve? Just putting down the first thing that comes into your head is not creative writing. It's automatic writing and the Surrealists loved it for getting in touch with the subconscious. Ask someone to do automatic writing and turn it in and you're going to get all kinds of violent and sexy stuff. Automatic writing is far more a clinical tool than an artistic one. Actual creative writing requires far more discipline and skill than just writing the first thought that comes into your head.

[blueerica]

Oh hell, guys... I had pages upon pages in my journal devoted to how I was going to kill my stepfather. I'm okay today, he was an abusive asshole, and yeah - I probably needed help. If someone found that book, I would hope that I got help instead of a prison sentence.


Who knows what's going on in this kids life? Not you, nor I, nor likely his teachers. If it's cause enough to do anything at all (and I'm not saying it was), wouldn't it be more logical to have the situation evaluated before jumping the gun and arresting him?

[Strangler Lewis]

I don't know what Illinois's disorderly conduct statute says, but in California it's fairly clear that actual threats of violence to a targeted person or his family are criminal. On the other hand, the statute "is not violated by mere angry utterances or ranting soliloquies, however violent. One may, in private, curse one's enemies, pummel pillows, and shout revenge for real or imagined wrongs--safe from section 422 sanction.”

If the question is could an assignment be deemed the opportunity for a student to make an actual criminal threat, the answer would have to be yes, although that would be a jury question. There's a California case where a student in art class painted a picture of himself shooting his teacher (not his art teacher) in the head. Of course, he was convicted, but the court of appeal reversed because there was no evidence that the student anticipated showing the painting to the teacher in question or that he knew that the teacher would see the painting.

I don't think what the kid wrote can be interpreted as an actual threat. Even if it could, then you'd get into interesting issues of entrapment if school teachers are now effectively agents of law enforcement for purpose of ferreting out antisocial thoughts.

Life is a law school hypo.

[innerSpaceman]

Eh, whatever. If the incident saves the kid from his own assholery of wanting to be Marine, maybe it was the best thing that ever could have happened to him.

If he wises up a bit (sorry, but I assume everyone who wants to go to war to be either a retard or the sick fvck his creative writing assignment implies) ... he will sue the school district and be independently wealthy in a decade or so.