Amnesty and my membership in the Republican party

[Alex]

No, but making sure that only authorized people cross a border doesn't seem like an unreasonable pinch point.

Considering the depressing effect that illegal immigration has on pay I'm always amazed that there is more progressive opposition to it.

Amnesty's have been tried all over the world (here previously, most European countries) and all the evidence indicates that they simply promote greater illegal immigration in the future under the belief that if you stay long enough eventually you'll be normalized.

One immigration change that I think should be made is so that citizenship is not granted merely for the coincidence of being born on American soil.

[blueerica]

TS - are you a supporter of Bush simply because he pisses off the "classic progressive liberal" ?

You do know you can be Republican, you can hate the Democrats, all without supporting Bush... (I can't stand the card-carrying mentality, on any side of an issue.)

As for me, I've been a Democrat. I've been a Republican. Right now, I'm neither and I think it keeps me from being further disillusioned from the whole process. I don't get to be disgruntled with "my party" when I don't have one.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

One immigration change that I think should be made is so that citizenship is not granted merely for the coincidence of being born on American soil.

Oh, and what would you have the requirements be, then?


Directed not solely to Alex, but to all other who have expressed this rather puzzling (to me) opinion.

[scaeagles]

I would have the requirements be that you are A) born to American citizen or B) adopted by an American citizen or C) have come to the country through the front door and gone through the (admittedly lengthy) process of becoming a citizen.

As far as when freedom would "end"....tough to put an exact line in the sand.

There is no expectation of privacy in a public place. Keep the government out of my home, from looking into my home or listening to what is happening in my home (without the appropriate court approved warrants).

In public, they can take my picture, record my voice, video tape me, watch me to their hearts content. I'm in public.

As long as my Constitutional rights are not being violated, I'm cool. I fail to see how stopping illegal immigration or even having a national ID card (assuming I don't have to present it at the whim of a government official) violates those.

[Alex]

Pretty much what scaeagles said.

A pregnant woman comes here on vacation from Ireland with her husband and two other children. She goes into early labor while visiting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and delivers a beautiful boy. Why is that kid an American?

A very late term Russian woman is flying from Novosibirsk to Toronto to visit her sister and goes into labor and delivers on the plane while it is in Alaskan airspace. Why is that kid an American citizen?

You say it is a puzzling concept but the majority of the world does not work under the same system we do. Jus soli (right of soil) is common in the Western Hemisphere but is a byproduct of an earlier era when populations were low. It is something we inherited from the United Kingdom and they it it 25 years ago (you must now be born to a legal resident). India, Ireland, and New Zealand are all countries that used to be on our system but have changed to san sanguinus (right of bloos) so that you are only automatically a citizen if born to at least one citizen parent.

This is by far the standard form of bestowing citizenship (in the United States we are both; if born abroad to American parents you are a citizen, if born domestically to foreign parents you are a citizen).

Here's a list (accumulated through Wikipedia) of various countries and how they handle citizenship by birth. We're pretty much in the oddball camp as far as the world is concerned.

Nations that require being born to a citizen to be a native-born citizen
Australia, Austria, Belarus, China, Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Iceland, India, Israel, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Malta, Morocco (only through the father), Nepal, New Zealand, Norway, Philippines, Poland, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Turkey

Nations that require being born to a legal resident meeting some requirements to be a native-born citizen
Belgium, France, Malaysia (not based on parental residency but on personal residency of 6 years after birth), Portugal, South Africa, United Kingdom,

Nations that simply require being born on domestic soil to be a native-born citizen
Brazil, Canada, Greece, Lithuania, Peru, South Korea (but only if other citizenships are renounced), United States

Other
Liberian citizenship is only available to black Africans. And native born rights are only passed by birth to a citizen.

Quite a few countries will also allow you to "reclaim" citizenship if you can show a sufficient historical ethnic or national connection.

[Morrigoon]

The national ID card interferes with freedom once you can't leave the house without it. You are then not free to walk the streets without your "papers" very commie/nazi. I fear if we institute a national ID card, it will somehow become mandatory that we have them on our person at all times. And don't try to compare that to a driver's license, because we only need that if we're operating a motor vehicle.

I DO feel less free because of all the hassle they have added to travel. I am not free to just pack a bag, buy a ticket, and step on a plane. I am now told how to pack my bag (eg: liquids in a ziploc bag or don't carry them), I am forced to remove my shoes and let my sweaty socks mingle with the humid impressions of so many hundreds of hot stockinged feet before me as I step through a metal detector, I am checked, and rechecked for my identity, and for good measure, checked again. I now have to arrive 2 hours before a flight to have a chance of making it through security in time for a flight that may last half that time. I do NOT feel free.

I don't even feel free on the net anymore, thanks to the Patriot Act. I think you'll find many Americans who no longer feel free to joke about certain topics lest it trigger some sort of "search" by the FBI, the records of which could hinder future ability to get certain jobs (I've had many jobs that required FBI background checks). No longer free to read certain books even out of curiosity, no longer free to search certain keywords on the internet, etc.

Am I doing anything wrong? No. But fear of being wrongly accused or even of having to go through the process of defending myself for doing nothing wrong restricts my freedoms. I can't satisfy my curiosity about the Anarchists' Cookb0ok (do I have the name right?) for fear of being mistaken for a terrorist.

The forefathers saw this, that's why the wrote the constitution, and it stood for freedom until big-brother (sorry, big-government) politicians decided to undermine it in a big power grab, aided by fearful peasants.

[Strangler Lewis]

I assume you don't want to be randomly stopped and frisked for weapons in the public square.

As for the government not looking into your home, if they're on the street, they can look into your home and listen to what's happening in there. In the war on drugs, fly-overs and various forms of infrared, heat seeking and satellite surveillance have been approved. The reasonable expectation of privacy diminishes as the technology advances and one is able to say that what once was private is actually open to public reception.

[scaeagles]

Of course they can. They can do a lot of stuff that they don't necessarily do.

I would extend my earlier public/private to include my person. My person is private unless there is probable cuase to determine otherwise.

And I agree, Morrigoon - I'm not wanting to carry my "papers" at all times.

However, do you have a "right" to fly? Is it worth enough to you to fly to go through the added security? Apparently so. How did this impose upon your freedom to go where you wanted? Were you told you coudn't go or delayed?

Too many people confuse inconvenience with restriction of freedoms.

[Kevy Baby]

And to add to the flying issue: there are other forms of transportation (train, bus, automobile, etc.).

Too often we confuse "rights" with "privileges." Flying is a privilege. Driving is a privilege. Feeling safe in your home is a right. Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure is a right. Security checks for flights is not an unreasonable search.

[scaeagles]

I just read something i found to be humorous from a column by Thomas Sowell -

Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented worker' is like calling a drug dealer an 'unlicensed pharmacist.'