The death penalty

[€uroMeinke]

I lean against the death penalty, but I think the Supreme Court did the right thing in setting 18 as the age of eligibility. It's the standard we're accustomed to accepting for adulthood even if there is some grey zone before and after that age.

[Nephythys]

(WB- I didn't hijack anything. I find the two to be very closely linked-and is part of MY view. TYVM)

Lizziebith-I'm not even going to have the discussion with you. I didn't judge a damn thing about you or anyone else, I just made my comments, you don't like them? Really that's just too bad. I don't like ALOT of things people here say and believe, I have to deal and just add what I have to say.... and I had no freaking clue it was a stupid song- TYVM to you too.

I find this notion that somehow at the magical age of 18 we are all of a sudden accountable or able to deal with the notion of being put to death for committing a brutal crime, to be completely ridiculous. The day before we turn 18, are we really any less aware and accountable? Of course not- I think it's an artificial line and an empty feel good notion that accounts to something illogical and useless. These minors were not found incompetent, they were found guilty, and sentenced according to their crime and the law. To now pretend that due to their age it's just not right is, IMO, a disingenuous notion. Now we get to support these savages for the rest of their lives- hell, by the time we get to the actual death penalty phase- how many of them are even still minors????

and since I don't give a damn that people don't like my relation between the two (I thought we were here to post our feelings and opinions on the subject- no one gets to tell me what a valid opinion is for me)- I find it especially ludicrous to whine about putting savage killers to death just because they were minors- yet we fight for the right to kill the unborn. Don't tell me the two have nothing to do with each other- this court decision....they say so many people say it's wrong to put a minor to death for commiting murder-if we are going to start making laws and decisions based on what is called a popular opinion- any of you choicers want to put that on the public polling block and see how it comes out? It simply makes no sense to me at all-

Why the hell do I even get into these stupid things- apparently I like tilting at windmills.

Bottom line MBC- there is no uber-magical date or age that makes us a lost cause, but being 17 should not make you exempt from being punished to the extent of the law when you have deliberately committed a crime that has a death penalty sentence as a possibility.

And I'm sorry you are disappointed- to me the two are very closely connected and so I used that in my posts- it was not an attempt to change the subject. It is MY opinion, and everyone who chooses to say they are not connected in their minds is free to do so- I can't- and I fail to see why I should then simply shut up and say nothing just because I have that view......I thought we wanted all sorts of views here, including my minority view and I am just as disappointed that people think it is ok to stifle MY view because they do not hold with it-

[SacTown Chronic]

My #1 problem with the death penalty is that our justice system is another form of class warfare. Rich murderers go golfing and poor murderers get to fry. I *know* innocent poor men have been executed, but has there ever been an innocent rich man put to death in this country?

[Prudence]

I don't think anyone has told anyone else to shut up, at least in this forum. However, I personally don't find ad hominem attacks useful for anything but starting fights. And frankly I don't have time for a fight right now.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Bottom line MBC- there is no uber-magical date or age that makes us a lost cause, but being 17 should not make you exempt from being punished to the extent of the law when you have deliberately committed a crime that has a death penalty sentence as a possibility.

Fair enough. Let me ask you though, if a 12 year old is guilty of murdering someone, are you in favor of killing them? We, as a society, have determined that someone who is under 18 isn't capable of making a decision to vote, sign a binding legal contract, or have a cigarette.

And I'm sorry you are disappointed- to me the two are very closely connected and so I used that in my posts- it was not an attempt to change the subject. It is MY opinion, and everyone who chooses to say they are not connected in their minds is free to do so- I can't- and I fail to see why I should then simply shut up and say nothing just because I have that view......I thought we wanted all sorts of views here, including my minority view and I am just as disappointed that people think it is ok to stifle MY view because they do not hold with it-

Nephy, if I didn't want opposing viewpoints, I wouldn't have started the thread. I wanted those viewpoints to focus on the topic at hand though. The sections of your posts that focused on the death penalty were welcome contributions, even if I don't agree with them. You aren't the only one in this thread that is pro-death penalty. Others have stated the same view and received no backlash whatsoever. So this isn't a case of your views being stifled. It's simply a matter of wanting to stay on topic.

[Ghoulish Delight]

It's been shown time and again that the families of murder victims do not feel the closure from the death penalty that they expect. So, it fails as a deterent because of the necessity of a long process. It fails as a method of retribution as people are not satisfied by it. And it carries a very real risk of wrongly killing an innocent person. Those three bullet points are more than enough for me to call it completely useless and irresponsible.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I will never ever ever be able to grasp the mindset that frets about an innocent man being executed on death row, yet wholeheartedly supports a so-called woman's right to choose which means the death of a totally innocent life. (yes- let's quibble about "life"- not)

And I'll never understand the mindset of someone who is so pro-life being able to support the death penalty when the person involved may be a totally innocent life. Death is death.

I'm on the fence about the death penalty. There's still too great of a chance that an innocent person will die. But I think if the person comes out and admits it and has zero remorse s/he should. Going to prison is supposed to be a punishment, a place to sit and think about what you did. Someone with no remorse is just wasting tax payers money.

I'm glad the Court set the age of 18 as the youngest age one can "qualify" for it. While I don't think there is a *magic age* it is the legal age to vote and join the military. I also thinks this stops the slipperly slope of how young is too young to receive it.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Fair enough. Let me ask you though, if a 12 year old is guilty of murdering someone, are you in favor of killing them? We, as a society, have determined that someone who is under 18 isn't capable of making a decision to vote, sign a binding legal contract, or have a cigarette.

#1- I think they have to be tried as adults before the death penalty can be used. Right? If a 12 year old murders people and is tried as an adult under our code of law and they sentence them to death- would I fight it? No. Does it make me comfortable? No. But I don't feel comfortable setting a precedent that just because you are YOUNG means you can kill without threat of the maximum extent of the law.

Nephy, if I didn't want opposing viewpoints, I wouldn't have started the thread. I wanted those viewpoints to focus on the topic at hand though. The sections of your posts that focused on the death penalty were welcome contributions, even if I don't agree with them. You aren't the only one in this thread that is pro-death penalty. Others have stated the same view and received no backlash whatsoever. So this isn't a case of your views being stifled. It's simply a matter of wanting to stay on topic.

To ME it is part of the topic at hand! To prattle on about caring about this court decision based on some sort of concern for the age of the people receiving the death penalty plays into a larger picture for me that I have talked about. I am not making this an abortion debate- I am discussing the topic in the CONTEXT that I view it through. I don't care if I was the only pro-death penalty person here- but I still fail to see why people want to tell me what context I can discuss this in. It's frustrating and I am trying to not let it get to me- see- if you decide it is valid to the topic, it is welcome, but if you decide it is not part of the topic I am unwelcome- it doesn't matter if it IS part o the topic to me! I always bring it back to the death penalty- and I am not derailing or trying to make this about something other than it is- but I am trying to discuss it in the context I view it through-

bah- forget it.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

And I'll never understand the mindset of someone who is so pro-life being able to support the death penalty when the person involved may be a totally innocent life. Death is death.

I'm on the fence about the death penalty. There's still too great of a chance that an innocent person will die. But I think if the person comes out and admits it and has zero remorse s/he should. Going to prison is supposed to be a punishment, a place to sit and think about what you did. Someone with no remorse is just wasting tax payers money.

There is a distinct difference to me between "maybe" (especially when they are found guilty through the course of the law) and "most certainly innocent" in regards to the abortion issue.

But in order to not digress-

Does someone have any accurate (as non-biased as possible) stats on how many people have been executed who were later exonerated? I still don't buy this notion that we are going along willy nilly killing innocent people with the death penalty.

Why bother with a trial and penalty phase if we are then just going to freak out at the notion that "maybe" someone was not guilty-

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Does someone have any accurate (as non-biased as possible) stats on how many people have been executed who were later exonerated? I still don't buy this notion that we are going along willy nilly killing innocent people with the death penalty.

How many do you need? How many of your loved ones would need to be wrongly executed for you to be outraged?



One is one too many.