Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (SPOILERS)

[innerSpaceman]

I'll answer the ones that are only Movie/Book 5 spoilers (and hence, no longer spoilers in any fashion whatsoever).

Originally Posted by Babette

How did the dementors get there?

In the movie, Dumbledore suggests they might have been sent by Voldemort, and there is no contradiction to that. But the demontors are under the control of the Ministry and, in the book, it's revealed that Umbridge sent them to attack Harry Potter.

Originally Posted by Babette

Who is the awesome character played by Helena Bonham Carter?

That is Bellatrix LeStrange, cousin to Sirius Black and most devoted (and deranged) follower of Lord Voldemort, whose albino dick she sucks on a regular basis. (That last part's not in the books, but I'm sure of it). Isn't it wonderful how Carter could give such an over-the-top performance that was somehow not cheesy, but instead completely delighful?!

Originally Posted by Babette

Where were they and where did all of those vaporous characters and archway come from?

They were in the Department of Mysteries at the Ministry of Magic headquarters. The vaporous characters were simply how the advanced witches and wizards got around quickly in the movie (black smoke for Death Eaters, white mist for Phoenix Orderers). I'm not sure if that's their method of magical transport in the book ... I'm not up to that part yet. Which is why I also can't answer about the Archway ... though, as I remember, it remains perhaps the most mysterious thingamabobbie in the wizarding world of J.K. Rowling.

Originally Posted by Babette

Why does Voldemort want the prophecy? What is it?

I can't answer this. It's not something that stuck in my mind, and I'm not up to that part of the book in my re-read. I find most of Rowling's McGuffins and mythology to be very tortured and confusing. I'm sure some Harry Potter uber-geek will jump in with the answer to this one.

Originally Posted by Babette

I knew Ron would grow up HOT!

You should have warned me!!!

[wendybeth]

Voldemort wants the prophecy because he discovers there was more to it than Snape initially heard- Snape was interrupted in his eavesdropping and only heard the first part of it.

[Babette]

Gracias, iSm and WB.

Don't tell me all y'all didn't see potential in this:

[Alex]

In the movie, Dumbledore suggests they might have been sent by Voldemort, and there is no contradiction to that. But the demontors are under the control of the Ministry and, in the book, it's revealed that Umbridge sent them to attack Harry Potter.

I got that from the movie, but maybe I was successfully reading between lines of excision.

[innerSpaceman]

So, I finally finished my re-read of Order of the Phoenix, and can finally comment authoritatively on why I think the movie was such a brilliant 2 hour and 18 minute adaptation of an 830 page novel. (Oh, and thanks for all the love notes hidden among the pages, Leigh-Ann and SuPeR K!)

It’s funny that Alex felt exposition had been cut, because that’s not where the differences lie. The first two-thirds of the book have been very faithfully transferred to the movie. Oh yeah, Harry does a couple of weeks torture detention in the book, but only one such session is shown in the film. Little short-cuts like that do not remove any exposition or result in choppiness. The result is simply non-repetitiveness.

In a similar vein, the Weasley Twins’ rebellion is reduced to the fireworks prank in the film, down from the combo fireworks prank and swamp hallway in the book. Harry’s two attempts to use Umbridge’s fireplace to communicate with Sirius in the book are reduced to one such attempt in the movie. Get the drift?

Even Harry’s failing relationship with Cho is very shrewdly handled via reduction. The whole botched date on Valentine’s Day is cut ... but the chilliness between them is brought out by having Cho be the one who betrays the D.A. (a change with the added time-saving benefit of eliminating the introduction of an extraneous character, Cho’s friend Marietta, who betrays the group in the novel). A brilliant piece of movie condencifying, imo.

* * * *

There are two minor subplot scenes cut ... and while I agree they are among the most charming in the book ... they did not propel the story, and would have taken up needless running time in the movie. Everybody loves the scene in St. Mungo’s Hospital. It’s a quirky new witch environment, and meeting Neville’s family there packs emotional punch. The lines of dialogue Neville speaks in the movie don’t have quite the same impact, but they also take 10 seconds rather than 8 minutes.

The scene with Firenze the Centaur taking over Divination Class from Sybil Trelawney was also charming in the book. But the entire episode with the Centaurs and Grawp the Giant was re-configured for the movie. In some ways the result is better than the book, in some ways not ... but it’s my favorite bit of change because it moves the pieces around so that they don’t parrot the novel, but achieve a good result for the film.

I think the movie is much clearer and tighter in its motivations for the Centaurs to hate Umbridge and the Ministry. The explanation that their range is being reduced works just fine, and I think having their ire be at Umbridge only (instead of also at Harry and Hermoine) works better for the triumphant moment when they cart Dolores away.

In the book, the Centaurs are simply pissed off at all wizards because Firenze is working for Hogwarts, and the scene has Hermoine, Harry and Umbridge in equal danger. It’s cool when Grawp comes surprisingly to the rescue, and arguable that this moment is more intense in the book.

But Hermoine comes off smarter in the movie, leading Umbridge to a known and powerful ally, the Giant, than in the book where she’s leading them all into equal danger with the Centaurs. And the movie’s introduction of Grawp and his instantaneous love for Hermoine is charming and entertaining. In the book, Grawp’s intro is scary, the Giant is hardly likeable, and he displays no affection for Hermoine, or Harry, or Hagrid for that matter.

I think the movie version is a bit tighter and more entertaining, on the whole. But the point is they made things slightly different and still workable. There was some time saving, some exposition saving, a nice surprise sacrificed, but two very entertaining scenes changed around from the way things were in the book. Brilliant film adaptation, imo.

(continued ...)

[innerSpaceman]

* * * * *

Ok, the big finale at the Ministry of Magic had some big changes. Some for the better, others not so much.

Chernabog felt they rushed getting into the Prophesy Warehouse, and I’m sure it was done to keep the momentum going. If I were a filmmaker, I’m sure I would be tempted to move from the excitement of flying Thestrals right to the excitement in the Prophesy Warehouse to keep the action pumping for the entire finale.

But I rather liked the book’s spooky explorations of the Department of Mysteries, though I’m not sure how well it would have translated to film, or how previewing rooms you would later stage fight scenes in would play in a movie. But I loved the Brains Room, and the Time Room, and felt showing them really informed what was going on in the Veil of Death Room. I guess it saved 7 minutes to have Bellatrix kill Sirius with Aveda Kadavera, rather than using a tour of the full Department of Mysteries insinuate the idea that the veiled Archway was involved in a study of the "great beyond." But if Bella was going to kill Sirius outright, what need was there for the Archway at all? It was superfluous, and I definitely think it was handled way better in the book.

Harry’s grief and confusion was better in the book, too. I hate the yelling-in-silence, covered-by-music constantly used in films to depict grief. It’s as if they don’t want to take the chance the actors’ screaming and raving will come off funny instead of tragic. But I think Daniel Radcliffe could have pulled it off (he did something similar in Prisoner of Azkaban quite effectively).

And while I’m at it, I’m sorry they used a "plasma" Archway in the movie, looking like something out of Star Trek, rather than the black material, literal Veil depicted in the book.

And yeah, I would have loved for them to have kept the freak Death Eater accident that happened with the bell jar in the time room. He ended up with a shrieking baby’s head on a grown man’s body ... and I think that would have been really bitchin in the movie. Oh well.


BUT ... the rest of the sequence was, imo, much better in the film version. Certainly the prophesy balls crashing was even more impressively realized than J.K. wrote it. And there’s not a doubt in my mind that Death Eaters getting around by transforming to black smoke, while Phoenix Orderers do so with white mist was better than the book. Rowling simply had them running around. Literally running. It was waaay cooler, visually, to have the smoke and mist stuff. That was wicked cool.

Jazzman complained about Dumbledore’s wizard duel with Voldemort, but it was pretty much exactly as Rowling described in the book, except that the "Wizards and Friends" statue was not magically animated. I dunno whether that would have looked cool on film or not. As sage a director as Stanley Kubrick decided not to take Stephen King’s animated topiaries literally in his version of "The Shining" - opting instead for the spooky hedge maze. Kubrick might have thought the moving topiaries which worked on the page would look hokey when brought to the screen. If the Harry Potter filmmakers had similar reservations about the Wizard’s Duel, I will not dispute the wisdom of their choice.

In all other respects, the duel itself was better in the movie. Harry’s subsequent "possession" by Voldemort was infinitely better in the film. There was really nothing to it in the novel. Voldemort took over Harry for all of two seconds. It was explained later by Dumbledore that Voldie had to get out of there in a hurry because he felt icky with the love in Harry’s heart. Bah. The movie version was eons better.

Likewise, hearing the prophesy in the over-long denouement in Dumbledore’s office would have been impossibly tedious in the film. It was much better to chuck the book’s conception of prophesies being heard when their crystal ball breaks, and have it heard - in Sybil Trelawney’s own voice - when Harry picks it up. This way, the audience can sort of grasp what’s at stake when the Death Eaters want the ball. There’s no clue what’s going on in the book!

And there’s no reasonable cause for complaint just because the entire prophesy could not be heard in the film. The part not heard is not important.

Spoiler:

I have no problem with them dropping red herrings that don’t pan out in the story, and the vague hint that the prophesy could have been referring to Neville Longbottom now turns out to have never played out in the book series

The entire prophesy goes like this:

"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... Born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies ... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives ... The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies ..."

So what if they dropped all the stuff about being born in July or born to parents that defied Voldemort three times? That’s all part of the red herring about Neville Longbottom that, in the book, Dumbledore discounts four seconds after tells the prophesy to Harry ... noting that the Dark Lord marking him makes the prophesy about Harry and none other.

Yeah, there’s the nagging bit that, in the movie, it’s never revealed just why Voldemort wants the prophesy so desperately in the first place. I guess the filmmakers might have made something up, but they couldn’t use J.K. Rowling’s reason because not only did it not apply to the film version of the story ... it was completely absurd and unworkable in any event.

In the novel, Voldemort knows only the part of the prophesy that was heard in the film (his minions overheard that part at the Hogs Head Inn when Trelawney was interviewing with Dumbledore for the Divinations post at Hogwarts). He wants to hear the rest of it. But since the red herring half of the prophesy has been chucked from the film series as a waste of time, that can’t really be Voldemort’s motive. Worse still, it’s never satisfactorily explained in the book why Voldemort needed Harry to get the prophesy for him.

The prophesy is about The Dark Lord and Harry Potter. Says so on the label. Either one can retrieve the record of it from the warehouse. But J.K. posits that Voldemort was afraid to venture into the Ministry of Magic ... even though he decides to go there once Harry Potter is on the scene. He goes through Machiavellian machinations to get Harry Potter there to retrieve the prophesy only to show up there himself because he’s succeeded in getting Harry Potter there to retrieve the prophesy. Once there, Voldemoret could retrieve the prophesy for his own self, without taking hostages or taking chances that its container will break. This is one of Rowling absolutely stupidest constructions ... and the movie was wise to drop it.

All in all, though the movie version lacks the atmospherics of exploring the Department of Mysteries, and handles the death of Sirius Black in less than stellar fashion ... the battle between the Death Eaters and Order Members, the Wizards Duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort, the revelation of the Prophesy, and the Possession of Harry Potter by Voldemort are all conveyed far better in the film than in the novel. When the dust settles from the respective finales, I think the movie has slight edge. At the very least, I can’t say they did a horrible adaptation.

And so, in the first of the books whose burgeoning length required some serious story adaptation for transfer to the screen, I think the makers of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix did an admirable job.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Holy crap, I agree with nearly every single point iSM makes about a Harry Potter film and book. Wonders never cease.

You seem to have expertly covered everything, Steve. I'll just add that I think the movie improved on how Cho's relationship was handled, and I think it was more interesting (and sad/tragic) to have her betray the DA because of Veritaserum than it was having it be her friend... Plus, it eliminated how nasty Hermione was in the book by ridding itself of the curse Hermione used on Cho's friend - that never sat right with me.

And I totally dug the movie Gwarp. HATED that entire sequence in the book. Snore, snore, snoring.

And though I too missed the actually missed of the Department of Mysteries, I think on celluloid some of that stuff would have just looked cheesy. Whereas the wizarding battle once the Auror's arrived? WOAH. Way more fun to watch then read. Sirius decking Malfoy - yes! And since [SPOILER WARNING FOR DEATHLY HALLOWS]

Spoiler:

nothing really ever came of the veil, there was no harm in having Bellatrix kill Sirius with the Avada Kedavra curse. And, honestly, better a killing curse then a windmill fall through a ****ing curtain.

Another side note spoiler for DH...

Spoiler:

I also thought it was a nice touch having Snape mention in front of Potter that Cho drank Veritaserum. I could be reading into things, but in lieu of Snape's own past/regrets, that's almost looks like a kindness on hnis part.

The acting was probably at its finest in this film. Definitely as good if not better than PoA and WAY better than Goblet of Fire, my least favorite of the movies.

Alan Rickman looked less like a grandma and more like the Snape I like to imagine. Naked. In my bed. With me also being naked. And in my bed.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

* * * * *

And while I’m at it, I’m sorry they used a "plasma" Archway in the movie, looking like something out of Star Trek, rather than the black material, literal Veil depicted in the book.

This would have been an ideal point to add Joan Collins as Bellatrix, given the Star Trek reference.....

[Kevy Baby]

OK, so I am really late to this game. Susan and I saw it tonight. I have to say that this has been my favorite of the HP movies to date. To me, this OOTP was the best translation to film - and the story most in need of a visual interpretation.

One of the first things I mentioned to Susan afterwards was that this movie was too short - it needed about another 10-20 minutes. But overall, it played well, not getting hung up on extraneous detail. One of the items I would have liked to see more of was Helena Bonham Carter's Bellatrix LeStrange. I don't recall how much Bell LeS was in the book: I just wanted more of HBC!

The casting of ALL the HP movies is in my opinion, the single best thing about the series. From the original casting (Hermione was frikken PERFECT in the first movie) up to Luna and Umbridge. I continue to be blown away by the choices.

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Those Weasley twins are getting cuter every year.

(I could have added a lot of others' quotes as well.)

I must be missing something because to me the boys looked MUCH less attractive in this film. To me, they looked like they were beat hard with an ugly stick.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Yes, the main trio was at its absolute worst. There was really nothing to it this time out. That's the story, sorry. The filmmakers didn't write it. Despite that, with so very little to do, Rupert Grint comes off the best he has in the entire series. And I think there's enough Harry and Hermoine to match up with any of the entries.

S and I overheard others mention a lack of chemistry amongst the trio and she and I discussed it. We both felt that any more play-up of the bonds that they share would be overkill. It has already been strongly established in the previous films - we get the point. I think it played well: the bond was there and you knew it.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Emma Watson is thankfully beautiful again (and she's legal now, isn't she??).

See my current signature.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

They managed to put lots of stuff from the book in the background (so familiar readers could spot it and smile, while not bogging down the proceedings with unnecessary detail).

One of the better aspects of the film!

Originally Posted by Prudence

zomg the cat plates!

The cat plates were freakin' awesome. Just the right amount of subtle comic comic relief (I mean c'mon - who isn't infected with "awww" ness when you hear a kitten mew?).

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Then again, the novel was written in 2002 ... and I doubt much prescience was needed to project the trajectory of the Blair and Bush regimes. Perhaps Rowling had no specifics in mind .... and perhaps she did.

If I recall correctly, JKR was going through some legal battles over accused plagiarism when she was writing this book. I don't recall the details, but that sticks in my brain.

Originally Posted by Alex

My understanding at the time is that that the cat that went through the cat door was going to warn Umbridge and that is how she caught them in her office. Is that correct?

That was my take as well.