The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 249

sleepyjeff · 09-12-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

All the mor reason not to believe in the whole man made global warming hype -

Analysis Finds Hundreds of Scientists Have Published Evidence Countering Man-Made Global Warming Fears

Scientific consensus on mad made warming? Hardly.

Doesn't matter.....only a scientist who accepts the "fact" of global warming can truly call him or herself a scientist: therefore the consensus is clear; global warming is a fact

JWBear · 09-13-2007, 05:21 PM

Almost all scientists agree that the climate is warming - The evidence is substantial. Whether or not it is caused by human actions is what is still not clear.

scaeagles · 09-13-2007, 06:10 PM

Agreed, JW. The climate is warming. What Gore and his ilk try to scam America (and the world) with is that it is caused by humans. On this there is simply no consensus, and the evidence is iirefutable that there have been repeated warming periods far before humans started any sort industrial revolution.

sleepyjeff · 09-13-2007, 07:16 PM

A few interesting facts from the World Almanac:

The highest temp ever recorded in Africa occured in 1922.
The lowest ....1935.
The highest temp ever recorded in Asia occured in 1942.
The lowest....1933.
The highest temp ever recorded in Europe occured in 1881.
The lowest.....na(but within last 20 years)
The highest temp ever recorded in Australia occured in 1889.
The lowest.....1994.
The higest temp ever recorded in Oceania occured in 1912.
The lowest.....1979.
The highest temp ever recorded in North America occured in 1913.
The lowest.....1947.
The highest temp ever recorded in Antartica occured in 1974.
The lowest ....1983.
All save for Asia have had their most recent temperature extremes a cold one. Two high temperatures pre-date the automobile and only one high temp has occured since the Interstate Highway system was built.

No continent wide high temps are found in our current warm crisis but there are 3 low records since the start of said crisis.

innerSpaceman · 09-13-2007, 08:15 PM

What's the difference if it's caused by man or not? The question is: What the fuk are we going to do about it?

Because, man-caused or not, man is royally SCREWED if we let global climate change follow its current course.

So if there are things man can do to shift the climate toward man's desired direction, he had better do so.

Of course, if there's anything man can do about shifting it, that in itself is evidence that man's already had a hand in shifting it so far. Whether man is going along with a trend-in-progress or not is hardly important. If our activities can "help" the climate, they can hurt it.

We'd better hope they can help it. (if you want to deny they have hurt it, enjoy your righteousness.)

scaeagles · 09-13-2007, 08:26 PM

Did the planet and the inhabitants of said planet survive the other periods of warming? Other periods of warming have been far more extreme than this one.

Can I deny that humans hurt the climate? Can you state with certainty that they do hurt it? I would agree that humans have polluted the environment, but I am not even one small bit convinced that we, short of nuclear armageddon, can change the climate.

I look at the current warming on Mars, where the polar ice caps have all but disappeared, and wonder how it is that all of our human caused warming has spread that far.

wendybeth · 09-13-2007, 08:52 PM

Living in the asphalt jungle that you do, Scaeagles, I'm really surprised that you think this is not man made, or at least being hastened and made worse by our contributions. The periodic spike or lowering of temps in times past has nearly always had an explanation- volcanic eruptions like Krakatoa, or meteor collisions that sent clouds of dust into the atmosphere for decades. I know the temps in Phoenix are much worse than they used to be, and the reason is the astounding amount of asphalt and lack of greenery. The air in many major cities is toxic, and untold rivers, coastal shorelines and bodies of water have been poisoned by heavy metals, crude oil, etc. We are ruining our environment, and it stands to reason that the atmosphere will follow. You can point to the "hundreds' of scientists (never mind who they may be working for) but thousands more refute their finds. I only have to fly into LA to be reminded of what we are doing to the very air we breathe, and I am thankful there are still a few places left that have clear air and clean water.

JWBear · 09-13-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

A few interesting facts from the World Almanac:

The highest temp ever recorded in Africa occured in 1922.
The lowest ....1935.
The highest temp ever recorded in Asia occured in 1942.
The lowest....1933.
The highest temp ever recorded in Europe occured in 1881.
The lowest.....na(but within last 20 years)
The highest temp ever recorded in Australia occured in 1889.
The lowest.....1994.
The higest temp ever recorded in Oceania occured in 1912.
The lowest.....1979.
The highest temp ever recorded in North America occured in 1913.
The lowest.....1947.
The highest temp ever recorded in Antartica occured in 1974.
The lowest ....1983.
All save for Asia have had their most recent temperature extremes a cold one. Two high temperatures pre-date the automobile and only one high temp has occured since the Interstate Highway system was built.

No continent wide high temps are found in our current warm crisis but there are 3 low records since the start of said crisis.

Meaningless data. It is the average global temperature that is rising.

scaeagles · 09-14-2007, 05:19 AM

WB, I clearly said that humans have polluted the planet. I am all for air quality standards and certain common sense regulations to prevent making rivers toxic, etc. I also do completely understand the concept of the "heat island", which is what Phoenix has become. However, adding greenery to a desert that never had any major greenery isn't much of an option.

Climate science is so overwhelmingly complex I do not think it is possible for us to predict it well, much less influence it.

And in terms of who the scientists work for....I'm sure there's some dishonest and those with a particular agenda on ALL sides. I don't think for a moment that just because a scientist says there is man made global warming that they are free from political or capitalistic influences, and I find it insulting, really, that only the common belief is that scientists who dispute man made global warming must be crooked or paid shills of the oil industry. Hell, one major one is one of the founders of greenpeace (who now is for the elimination of old growth forests because of positive impacts on the environment).

sleepyjeff · 09-14-2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JWBear

Meaningless data. It is the average global temperature that is rising.

True enough.....but how come every time it's really, really hot we hear about how it must be global warming?

Nevertheless, I find the stats.....interesting; even though they don't really disprove anything

09-13-2007, 05:21 PM	#2482
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	Almost all scientists agree that the climate is warming - The evidence is substantial. Whether or not it is caused by human actions is what is still not clear. __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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09-13-2007, 06:10 PM	#2483
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Agreed, JW. The climate is warming. What Gore and his ilk try to scam America (and the world) with is that it is caused by humans. On this there is simply no consensus, and the evidence is iirefutable that there have been repeated warming periods far before humans started any sort industrial revolution.
	Submit to Quotes

09-13-2007, 07:16 PM	#2484
sleepyjeff Go Hawks Go! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Parkrose Posts: 2,632	A few interesting facts from the World Almanac: The highest temp ever recorded in Africa occured in 1922. The lowest ....1935. The highest temp ever recorded in Asia occured in 1942. The lowest....1933. The highest temp ever recorded in Europe occured in 1881. The lowest.....na(but within last 20 years) The highest temp ever recorded in Australia occured in 1889. The lowest.....1994. The higest temp ever recorded in Oceania occured in 1912. The lowest.....1979. The highest temp ever recorded in North America occured in 1913. The lowest.....1947. The highest temp ever recorded in Antartica occured in 1974. The lowest ....1983. All save for Asia have had their most recent temperature extremes a cold one. Two high temperatures pre-date the automobile and only one high temp has occured since the Interstate Highway system was built. No continent wide high temps are found in our current warm crisis but there are 3 low records since the start of said crisis. __________________ River Guardian-less
	Submit to Quotes

09-13-2007, 08:15 PM	#2485
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	What's the difference if it's caused by man or not? The question is: What the fuk are we going to do about it? Because, man-caused or not, man is royally SCREWED if we let global climate change follow its current course. So if there are things man can do to shift the climate toward man's desired direction, he had better do so. Of course, if there's anything man can do about shifting it, that in itself is evidence that man's already had a hand in shifting it so far. Whether man is going along with a trend-in-progress or not is hardly important. If our activities can "help" the climate, they can hurt it. We'd better hope they can help it. (if you want to deny they have hurt it, enjoy your righteousness.)
	Submit to Quotes

09-13-2007, 08:26 PM	#2486
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Did the planet and the inhabitants of said planet survive the other periods of warming? Other periods of warming have been far more extreme than this one. Can I deny that humans hurt the climate? Can you state with certainty that they do hurt it? I would agree that humans have polluted the environment, but I am not even one small bit convinced that we, short of nuclear armageddon, can change the climate. I look at the current warming on Mars, where the polar ice caps have all but disappeared, and wonder how it is that all of our human caused warming has spread that far.
	Submit to Quotes

09-13-2007, 08:52 PM	#2487
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	Living in the asphalt jungle that you do, Scaeagles, I'm really surprised that you think this is not man made, or at least being hastened and made worse by our contributions. The periodic spike or lowering of temps in times past has nearly always had an explanation- volcanic eruptions like Krakatoa, or meteor collisions that sent clouds of dust into the atmosphere for decades. I know the temps in Phoenix are much worse than they used to be, and the reason is the astounding amount of asphalt and lack of greenery. The air in many major cities is toxic, and untold rivers, coastal shorelines and bodies of water have been poisoned by heavy metals, crude oil, etc. We are ruining our environment, and it stands to reason that the atmosphere will follow. You can point to the "hundreds' of scientists (never mind who they may be working for) but thousands more refute their finds. I only have to fly into LA to be reminded of what we are doing to the very air we breathe, and I am thankful there are still a few places left that have clear air and clean water. __________________
	Submit to Quotes

09-14-2007, 05:19 AM	#2489
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	WB, I clearly said that humans have polluted the planet. I am all for air quality standards and certain common sense regulations to prevent making rivers toxic, etc. I also do completely understand the concept of the "heat island", which is what Phoenix has become. However, adding greenery to a desert that never had any major greenery isn't much of an option. Climate science is so overwhelmingly complex I do not think it is possible for us to predict it well, much less influence it. And in terms of who the scientists work for....I'm sure there's some dishonest and those with a particular agenda on ALL sides. I don't think for a moment that just because a scientist says there is man made global warming that they are free from political or capitalistic influences, and I find it insulting, really, that only the common belief is that scientists who dispute man made global warming must be crooked or paid shills of the oil industry. Hell, one major one is one of the founders of greenpeace (who now is for the elimination of old growth forests because of positive impacts on the environment).
	Submit to Quotes