Smoking in France a thing of the past?

[Morrigoon]

I could see allowing a situation where bars could apply for a special smoking permit, have to pay extra for the privilege (to keep EVERY bar from doing it), and thus be allowed to become "smoker's bars".

But beyond that... as paranoid as I am of government interference in our lives I am happy to allow them to ban smoking.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Helmet laws impact the general public because we pay the costs of their hospital stays and rehab if they can be rehabbed. It's only secondarily about the deaths- as noted, a tragedy, but one that affects only that family. The public health care cost affects all of us. I'm not sure how I feel about helmet laws, though when hubby and I lived in a non-helmet-law state, we still wore helmets.

Cig smoke is more affecting to others around the smoker. Without smoke bans, as has been noted, there's really no public place to escape the smoke. Restaurants have "non smoking" sections, but you're not really away from it. If people smoke everywhere, how can a person escape it? Even by avoiding bars and restaurants and movie theaters, people still smoked in the grocery store, right? People smoke everywhere if allowed. That's the important element for me- the fact that if smokers are allowed free reign, a nonsmoker cannot avoid being exposed.

I disagree that smoking is required for any culture. Maybe it's a part of how they think of themselves, but culture changes. They can still be French. It's a lifestyle involving much more than just cigs.

[NirvanaMan]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

Fearmongering

With so many of our industrialized nations offering universal health care, the world should be rife with examples you could cite.

Please do.

Well, not necessarily. We have become a culture of entitlement. "I want what I am owed" is heard time and time again. Our court systems are filled with frivolous cases. People win multi-million dollar settlements (at least initially) for spilling coffee on themselves. This is not the case with many other countries, including those that currently offer some flavour of government health care.

It would take the combination of universal health care along with a society that supports and embraces the idea that common sense is non-existent for the hypothesis proposed by sceagles to come true. The sliding slope argument is a fair one that has often been proven to be a valid theorem time and time again throughout history. Simply dismissing it as "fearmongering" is a bit silly in my opinion.

[Alex]

One small group I do find amusing are the people who will sidle up to a person and cough loudly if someone is smoking anywhere near them but have no problem smoking pot so that everybody within 100 feet can smell it. Personally I find the smell of pot smoke much worse than cigarettes.

And incense. The guy at the Macarthur BART station who sells incense should go to prison for life. The piss odor under the overpass is much preferable to his wares.

[mousepod]

As someone who calls himself a libertarian, I should be disgusted at all of the anti-smoking laws that keep getting passed - but deep in my heart, I know that the world is a more tolerable place with less smoking.

I also know that these measures were instrumental in getting me to quit 11 years ago. When I lived in NYC, I could smoke in my office (I had a private office with its own ventilation unit), in bars/clubs (where I did a good portion of my work), and of course in my apartment.

Once we moved to CA, my office was located in an open warehouse, so smoking was verboten. I couldn't smoke at clubs or restaurants. My home was now "our home" and H made it clear that while my smoking would be tolerated, it certainly wasn't appreciated.

Since smoking was no longer something I did while doing something else, I had to make a conscious decision whether or not I wanted to stop what I was doing to go outside and smoke. That didn't last long.

So I'm conflicted, ambivalent, and but ultimately secretly happy with the current state of no-smoking laws.

[alphabassettgrrl]

I keep thinking about "Demolition Man" when they say meat and salt are banned because they're bad for us and all restaurants are Taco Bell.

[Not Afraid]

I hate inside smoking. I always have. Outside smoking doesn't bother me one bit.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I hate inside smoking. I always have. Outside smoking doesn't bother me one bit.

I do not care for smoking, a lifelong non-smoker, the only one in my family.
Inside, horrible. Outside, since I am a non-smoker, it matters not, the wind will change in whatever direction I stand or sit so I will always get smoke in the face. It must be some form of wacky universal punishment for me, but it always happens.

For the record, I do not think smoking is a culteral thing to be solely identified as being a French trait. I am surprised that the bans are happening outside the US, however. Duh, there are non-smokers, even in France and Italy. ;-)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by NirvanaMan

It is simply because I enjoy the side benefit that I do not complain too much about the government imposition in our lives.

Yes, and that is a valid reason to support it. In fact, that's the only reason we should support governmental impositions on freedom, because the specific imposition benefits us.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

With so many of our industrialized nations offering universal health care, the world should be rife with examples you could cite.

Not exactly on point, but in the slippery slope direction:

Here is a man who was denied a work visa in New Zealand because he was overweight and a potential burden to their national health care program. He lost went and then was allowed in. Presumably Samoans are not allowed to move there.