The Schiavo issue

[Scrooge McSam]

But, Neph, how much is enough?

It's been through state and federal court several kinds of ways.

These "so-called wishes" have been gone over and accepted in court. What about them is "so-called"?

The things that are being said were being said when all this rumbled it's way through the courts. They were rejected.

And after that whole long painful process, are we now to draw guns?

One brother waging his war internationally, the other waging his at home and all of us just watching.

I am sick to my stomach

[wendybeth]

Really, both sides (political) are behaving in a disgusting manner. I think I am almost more sickened by their activities than I am by the actual 'event'. Somehow this got morphed into an abortion rights issue, and it's inappropriate, to say the least. I stand by my feelings on the matter- I don't trust the husband, I abhor the manner of her death and I question all the experts who can't even agree if she is suffering or not, and I think the whole situation is a tragedy. I wish someone had just suffocated her. She really will be better off away from this messed up world.

[Claire]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

I gave the DNR order for my father, and no one ever questioned my intentions. Still his death came long after he wanted it, after I foolishly talked him out of suicide. Such a wierd thing to regret.

My grandpa died from lung cancer a few years ago and he tried to kill himself by stuffing tiny pieces of tissue in his vent tube. He wanted to be done. He'd said his goodbyes in the prior week, he was ready to go. Then the alarm went off on his machines and everyone knew what he had done.....and you know, it made it easier to let him go. Knowing how extremely ready he was. He died about two weeks later. Ack. Now I'll cry. It was a private matter, and very difficult for everyone in my Catholic family to deal with--not just his death but that he'd tried to commit suicide.

The political stuff has really gotten to me. My family would be mortified if the fact that my grandpa had tried to kill himself was in the news. If any part of his death was in the news. Some things should remain in the family. When it can't stay that way--mediation. Beyond that? Okay, a local court. Ugh, then a state court. But to take it to a federal level? To me, it's just disgusting.

I know I've been personalizing it. Gosh I've been following the story for so freaking long and when Terri Schiavo dies, I'll bawl like a baby and wait for the politicians to jump on it, to point fingers and the ugliness will just get uglier.

[sleepyjeff]

Since we all agree that Europe is the model to follow.........

"One of the more disturbing things about euthanasia in the Netherlands is that there seems to have developed a view among a significant minority of doctors that consent is not necessary to end a life provided that the quality of that life is below some subjective threshold. Almost 5 percent of people who died in the Netherlands in 1990, for example, were killed by doctors who never received explicit consent for their actions. Even more disturbing is that a 1997 study found that as many as 8 percent of infants who died in the Netherlands were killed by their doctors"

---Brian Carnell

[Name]

:sigh: I hope she dies soon, not to be cruel, but so that this issue will end and we can move on to the next fvcked up issue. Basically, I am tired of seeing it all over the news, and there are far more (in my opinion, important) issues that the government needs to be dealing with(all three branches).

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

But, Neph, how much is enough?

It's been through state and federal court several kinds of ways.

These "so-called wishes" have been gone over and accepted in court. What about them is "so-called"?

The things that are being said were being said when all this rumbled it's way through the courts. They were rejected.

And after that whole long painful process, are we now to draw guns?

One brother waging his war internationally, the other waging his at home and all of us just watching.

I am sick to my stomach

According to most accounts he did not even start to care about her "wishes" until the insurance money ran out and an insurance policy paid on her death became the prize. All I am saying is that it is naive to assume that this man IS in fact acting in a loving fashion and carrying out her wishes. You and I do NOT know the real truth to all of this- and I am with Wendybeth, the man is not to be trusted.

Bashing Bush (Gov. or Pres.) is just your side game, and it detracts from the core of the issue, IMO. I actually agree to some extent that the gov't should not have gotten so deeply involved, and yet I also see why they did-

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

All I am saying is that it is naive to assume that this man IS in fact acting in a loving fashion and carrying out her wishes.

Were I simply assuming, I would have to agree with you. I am basing my opinion on a situation that has been in court for over 10 years, discussed nine ways til Sunday and ruled on numerous times. If that's naive, then hell I'll wear that banner.

How many court rulings do you have in favor of the Schindlers and the Bushes?

How many was that again?

Originally Posted by Nephythys

You and I do NOT know the real truth to all of this- and I am with Wendybeth, the man is not to be trusted.

So it doesn't matter how many times the courts, both federal and state, have ruled, eh?

Seriously, why do you think the courts don't see or don't believe the evidence you see and believe? Are they on a mission to kill Terri, as Mrs. Schindler alleges in the news today about Judge Greer? Is the information just not getting to them for some reason?

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Bashing Bush (Gov. or Pres.) is just your side game, and it detracts from the core of the issue, IMO.

Of course, you know I disagree. I do not believe Pres. Bush would have gotten involved in this if not for trying to score a few political points for himself and Gov. Bush by stirring up the fundies. His position now is in direct opposition to his position on the Futile Care law in Texas he signed while Governor of Texas.

And do we have to discuss Gov. Bush's last attempt to circumvent the courts being ruled unconstitutional? And now he's talking about taking up arms in defying the court.

G H W Bush must be so proud of his boys

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I actually agree to some extent that the gov't should not have gotten so deeply involved, and yet I also see why they did-

Oh, so do I. So do I. And it has nothing to do with Terri Schiavo.

[Nephythys]

I love it- the courts are pure and unimpeachable when they are siding with Michael Shaivo- but you guys freak out about the possibility of an innocent man being sentenced to death because the courts and trials are so fallible. Which is it? Or are they only unimpeachable when they are doing something you approve of?

But beyond that- I love this quote from my favorite NON- conservative blogger-

And it's also the reason why I think that you are completely bat**** insane - not to mention a rotten human being - if you truly think it's wrong to let her live in a PVS state because she is capable of suffering by persisting in that state, but it's okay to starve her to death, because she is incapable of suffering from the long, slow, painful death of dehydration and starvation.

It makes no sense.

Exactly.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

Alright, who thought "Waco"?

You know you did

Fess up

What do you say at this point?

Waco....whacko...what's the diff?



Actually, I thought "I wonder what the ransom demands will be.....a get-away car, a helicopter and a zillion dollars in unmarked bills?"



All jihads are worrisome to me.

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I love it- the courts are pure and unimpeachable when they are siding with Michael Shaivo- but you guys freak out about the possibility of an innocent man being sentenced to death because the courts and trials are so fallible. Which is it? Or are they only unimpeachable when they are doing something you approve of?

First, in future please try and address my comments and questions instead of lumping me in with a group of people I don't necessarily agree with.

Further, I never called the courts pure and unimpeachable. I said this has been considered many times from many different angles and the Schindler's prevailed not a single time. I also asked you why you think this is, which you chose not to address in your rush to hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Nephythys

But beyond that- I love this quote from my favorite NON- conservative blogger

I must remember that you are not calling me bat **** insane, not to mention a rotten human being, by citing a quote calling someone else bat **** insane, not to mention a rotten human being, since you can argue that you are not in fact calling ME bat **** insane, not to mention a rotten human being, just simply quoting an article calling someone else bat **** insane, not to mention a rotten human being.

As to your quote...

if you truly think it's wrong to let her live in a PVS state because she is capable of suffering by persisting in that state, but it's okay to starve her to death, because she is incapable of suffering from the long, slow, painful death of dehydration and starvation.

The argument is flawed, specifically this part...

if you truly think it's wrong to let her live in a PVS state because she is capable of suffering by persisting in that state

Completely missing the point. She made a choice not to continue in that state. That's what it's about for me. The commentator (the one who called his opponent bat **** insane, not to mention a rotten human being) is setting up a false premise to bolster a flawed argument.