Discussion of California Ballot Initiatives

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

I may be incorrect on this, but I thought that Measure M, which provided transit funds for Orange County, worked out pretty good. As I've said before, I am usually against anything which spends my money (read: bond issues), but I think this was one that actually did what it was supposed to do.

Measure M has indeed been a major boon for OC. And there's talk of proposing a similar measure for LA. I'm betting it'll never pass as a ballot prop.

[SacTown Chronic]

Totally, Kevy.

[NirvanaMan]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

I may be incorrect on this, but I thought that Measure M, which provided transit funds for Orange County, worked out pretty good.

http://www.aaa-calif.com/corpinfo/transportation.aspx

Some info there, though it could be better. Some bonds are acted on properly, some are not.

And I guess it is arguable that education is part of public infrastructure, though I disagree. Definitely open to interpretation though. Either way, I don't think even you could find a way to classify education as a transportation initiative.

[Kevy Baby]

To clarify: I think Measure M is very much the exception. I am usually not too impressed with the initiatives that do pass.

Originally Posted by NirvanaMan

http://www.aaa-calif.com/corpinfo/transportation.aspx

Unfotunately, this link does not go directly to a story
I am curious what spin that liberal extremist organization has to say on the matter

Originally Posted by NirvanaMan

Either way, I don't think even you could find a way to classify education as a transportation initiative.

Driver's Ed?


ETA: I think I know what may be the problem with the link. I hear the Internet Marketing Department has questionable management.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by NirvanaMan

And I guess it is arguable that education is part of public infrastructure, though I disagree.

Dude, you really think that paved streets are more vital to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than educated citizens? Yeah, yeah, I've worked education-related jobs for most of my career, but still. I totally agree about misappropriations, but that's the case for all worthy government endeavors.

Measure M wasn't a bond issue, which is part of the reason it kicks ass.

[JWBear]

CP, that is one of the fundamental philosophical differences between many on the right and left. Those on the right see things such as health, safety, and education as matters of personal choice. Those on the left see these things as part the public good.

[NirvanaMan]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

ETA: I think I know what may be the problem with the link. I hear the Internet Marketing Department has questionable management.

Could be. But perhaps it's user error. The link works perfectly fine for me. It is a little microsite our PR department did regarding transportation propositions to put some pressure on Sacramento to actually follow through on that which the voters authorized.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by NirvanaMan

Could be. But perhaps it's user error. The link works perfectly fine for me. It is a little microsite our PR department did regarding transportation propositions to put some pressure on Sacramento to actually follow through on that which the voters authorized.

It makes you enter a zip code before redirecting to the article.

[NirvanaMan]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Dude, you really think that paved streets are more vital to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness than educated citizens? Yeah, yeah, I've worked education-related jobs for most of my career, but still. I totally agree about misappropriations, but that's the case for all worthy government endeavors.

Measure M wasn't a bond issue, which is part of the reason it kicks ass.

If you read my comments again I believe you would have to concur that I made no such qualitative judgment in my statement. I simply questioned whether it might be considered to be part of the public infrastructure. I suppose I could be convinced either way on it, though my first blush tendency is to balk at anything government controlled. I don't necessarily disagree that K-12 by our friendly government is the wrong way to go about things. However I can't say I've been interested enough to pay it much thought.

Would you argue against the importance of good roads in a modern society? Either way, diverting funds away from that which the electorate specifically authorized their collection for is wrong. Just because misappropriations are a frequent issue, doesn't make them right nor does it mean that it should be ignored.

JW, not sure that your assertation is entirely accurate. I would argue that there is not one fundamental difference and those differences certainly vary if you are comparing liberals to conservatives versus Republicans to Democrats. However, if we were to take it one level up perhaps you are meaning to say (perhaps not) that the right believes in personal responsibility whereas the left believes in whatever benefits the collective good. This obviously gets vague where issues such as abortion and gay rights seem to cross over between party lines and the whole thing just gets rather muddy honestly.

So I will say that I believe in personal responsibility and choice. Health, safety and education are rather vague topics and ones that would need to be explored at a deeper level for me to define my belief as to the role of government in each area and certainly too difficult to make blanket statements about any generalized political belief system.

I do believe however that government should exist solely to provide that which a person cannot reasonably be expected to provide for themselves (roads and stealth bombers come to mind).

[NirvanaMan]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

It makes you enter a zip code before redirecting to the article.

Yup. Enter any SoCal Zip. Nothing that can be done about that.