Man Commits Suicide at DLH

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

This is true. But again, wouldn't call it a strength.

Perhaps it isn't either.

[Not Afraid]

My earlier comment in response to this:

Originally Posted by [B

Motorboat Cruiser][/b]
It is interesting that, when someone is suffering from enormous physical pain, such as from a terminal illness like cancer, suicide is often seen as a justifiable route. And yet, if that enormous pain is mental, rather than physical, their inability to cope is often viewed as weakness, selfish ... the easy way out.

was addressed to the view from the "outside" and how it is seen a justified under one condition and not justified under another when, in fact, both situations involve physical diseases they just effect different parts of the body.

I agree that the effects of diseases differ greatly. The effects of your liver hurting is different than the effects and outcome of your brain not functioning properly. However, they are both illnesses. We, as a society, just seem to be more accepting of certain malfunctions of the body than of others.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

My earlier comment in response to this:



was addressed to the view from the "outside" and how it is seen a justified under one condition and not justified under another when, in fact, both situations involve physical diseases they just effect different parts of the body.

I agree that the effects of diseases differ greatly. The effects of your liver hurting is different than the effects and outcome of your brain not functioning properly. However, they are both illnesses. We, as a society, just seem to be more accepting of certain malfunctions of the body than of others.

Well, in that case, I certainly misunderstood your post. I agree completely.

[Strangler Lewis]

If you look at the DSM--and who wouldn't want to--most of the disorders, especially the milder ones, are defined with respect to the outer boundaries of a perceived norm and/or to the extent they inhibit day to day functioning. In this respect, mental illness is a weakness, the same way my asthma is a weakness, but that certainly doesn't make it blameworthy.

I think the stigma attaches because if we acknowledge that our mental disturbances and responses to them can be attributed to our genetic structure, we have to acknowledge that our finer personality traits are beyond our control as well.

[€uroMeinke]

The problem with the term "weakness" is it's a comparator and not really a fact. There are many who have turned their perceived weakness or disabilities into strengths so I'm not sure what is gained by characterizing such things as a weakness since any trait can be portrayed as such depending on the circumstances.

[innerSpaceman]

To play the semantics game a little further, I posit that people with cancer do have a weakness. We just won't be rude enough to say so. But if an antelope had cancer, that would be a weakness that might get them picked off by a puma. We just don't particularly care about hurting the antelope's feelings, so we call a spade a spade.

Funny how the same word, weakness, can tend to imply some sort of personal failing when we apply it to a human. But it's possible for Morigoon to have meant it, as she said, in very clinical terms. Too bad so many words are freighted with human judgment. They needn't be.



Oh, except for "The Easy Way Out." That comes with judgment included free.

[€uroMeinke]

I think "weakness" is fine but it requires contest when used alone as an absolute it becomes a problem even in the most Darwinian examples. Certain "diseases" (e.g. Sickle Cell Anemia) while a potential weakness today were a strength before modern medicine caught up with the genetics.

Saying something is a weakness does nothing to further the dialogue on what to do or react to a particular condition, Rather it comes off as a dismissive way of saying, "that's not my problem."

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I think I bristle at the word in the context of disease - mental or otherwise. MBC's answer ("I'd call it an illness") was exactly what I said out loud before I scrolled down and saw it.

Sure - if you want to reduce things to objectivity, an illness can make things harder for someone. So if you want to call that "weak," that's probably apt, in a way.

But I would argue that you can't separate implications from some words - and in this case, even if it's not intended, the word sounds cold, and harsh, and lacking in compassion. And I believe that it's the opposite of the kind of thing someone who, say, is battling depression, needs to hear. Would you say "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your weakness" or "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your illness"?

Also, while in Cindy's strictest terms, the patient might be "weak" compared to someone who is not ill... the most strength I've ever seen in people has been in those who were fighting one illness or another. Even in those strict terms, I would never, ever, ever call my mother "weak" after twelve years of fighting. Because I've often said I can't imagine lasting a fraction of that time with her "weakness" - and her strength.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I think I bristle at the word in the context of disease - mental or otherwise. MBC's answer ("I'd call it an illness") was exactly what I said out loud before I scrolled down and saw it.

Sure - if you want to reduce things to objectivity, an illness can make things harder for someone. So if you want to call that "weak," that's probably apt, in a way.

But I would argue that you can't separate implications from some words - and in this case, even if it's not intended, the word sounds cold, and harsh, and lacking in compassion. And I believe that it's the opposite of the kind of thing someone who, say, is battling depression, needs to hear. Would you say "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your weakness" or "I'm so glad you're getting treatment for your illness"?

Also, while in Cindy's strictest terms, the patient might be "weak" compared to someone who is not ill... the most strength I've ever seen in people were in those who were fighting one illness or another. Even in those strict terms, I would never, ever, ever call my mother "weak" after twelve years of fighting. Because I've often said I can't imagine lasting a fraction of that time with her "weakness" - and her strength.

That was on my mind too-

I had an "illness" I had cancer- it took strength to fight it, to make it to every treatment and deal with the toll on my body.

I have also fought depression- it takes strength.

Damn right it's strength when you fight those things- mental or physical.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I have also fought depression- it takes strength.

Damn skippy.

I had something else to say, but it's too personal.

So I'll just repeat: damn skippy.