Indy Marathon - Sunday 5/18 - Page 6

innerSpaceman · 05-19-2008, 11:26 AM

So? The Grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. Fine. He could have easily said the power of the Grail does not operate beyond the great seal.

He didn't.

All one has to do, in the stated mythology, to gain immortality is to DRINK from the Grail. Both Indy and his dad do so. You don't have to carry the Grail on your belt for all eternity once you've taken a drink.

SHENANIGANS. Professor Jones and Junior are both IMMORTAL. No one said that immortality is cancelled if the Grail is taken beyond the seal. No one said you have to keep the Grail in the tiny chamber if you want your immortality thirst quencher to be valid.

So why does the 700-year-old Templar Knight look younger in The Last Crusade than Indiana Jones does a mere 20-years later in Indy 4??? There can't be that much mileage!!

mousepod · 05-19-2008, 11:33 AM

Except that the Knight is one of three brothers who all drank from the Grail. And the other two are long dead.

Ghoulish Delight · 05-19-2008, 11:35 AM

"and the price of immortality"

That does kinda imply that one needs to have the grail with you to remain immortal. That you need to continually re-up the effects by drinking out of it for eternity.

Of course, if that's the case, then what's the point in the first place? And why does there need to be a guardian knight if the only "benefit" is that you get to live in a cave forever? Who cares if the most evil person in the world succeeds in getting there if they can't be immortal outside the cave, and can't steal the grail without causing a cave in?

Moonliner · 05-19-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

"and the price of immortality"

That does kinda imply that one needs to have the grail with you to remain immortal. That you need to continually re-up the effects by drinking out of it for eternity.

Of course, if that's the case, then what's the point in the first place? And why does there need to be a guardian knight if the only "benefit" is that you get to live in a cave forever? Who cares if the most evil person in the world succeeds in getting there if they can't be immortal outside the cave, and can't steal the grail without causing a cave in?

The gurdian is not there to protect the cups mystic powers. It's the CUP OF CHRIST. That's why it needs to be guarded. It's HOLY. You don't want those blasted infadels getting their grubby paws all over your holy relic. Just look at the controversy over one little copy of the Koran. Imagine if that had been an original copy.....

Kevy Baby · 05-19-2008, 11:47 AM

He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the holy grail in the Castle of Aaauuuggghhh...

Ghoulish Delight · 05-19-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonliner

The gurdian is not there to protect the cups mystic powers. It's the CUP OF CHRIST. That's why it needs to be guarded. It's HOLY. You don't want those blasted infadels getting their grubby paws all over your holy relic. Just look at the controversy over one little copy of the Koran. Imagine if that had been an original copy.....

But they can't take it out of there. That seems like a pretty air-tight security system to me. I'm starting to think Mr. Knight thought of the whole, "Stay here and 'protect the grail'" thing himself.

And who exactly thought someone would be dumb enough to think that one of those plates was the grail?

innerSpaceman · 05-19-2008, 11:59 AM

Nope, sorry. Ghoulish Delight Johnson is right.

There's zero point in obtaining the Holy Grail if your immortality depends on baby-sitting it all alone in a dark cave inside Petra ... for the rest of time.

Also, as he noted after the screening ... Ho-Hum on the Maguffin being something that confers no tangible benefit on the Nazis, while the Lost Ark would purportedly have allowed them to conquer every army on earth via leveling mountains and laying waste to entire regions ... if it were not for the innate revenge motive of the God of the Hebrews to exact upon the Nazis ... also missing from the more ho-hum Grail of Christ.

Also ho-humming about the quest for the Grail is that the prize is not gained till the end of the movie. It's so much better in Raiders when finding the Maguffin is not nearly the climax of the film ... but getting it stolen back and forth makes the last third an exciting game of the "Raiders" of the Lost Ark, and not simply a story of Indiana Jones.

mousepod insisted Raiders is just as much walking from room-to-room for a new setpiece as Temple of Doom ... to which I reply, Balderdash.

Stereotypical as it may be (and I daresay that's the point), having the Ark captured, stolen, re-captured, re-stolen is all great story stuff relating to the stated goal, and not simply stuff that happens as Indy walks into the next room of the same big building.

Some may say it doesn't make a difference if the action is related to the Maguffin or not, but I disagree. Just as I find the later Bourne films greatly lacking without the opening "gimmick" of Jason's amnesia (not to mention a love story you care about), Temple of Doom is lacking for (among too many other things) the action not really relating to the Maguffin (and certainly not having a love story you care about)

Gemini Cricket · 05-19-2008, 12:01 PM

Being good archaeologists, hopefully the Jonses reported where and when they saw the cup last. And they should also say it may be near the dead body of Elsa Schneider.

Gemini Cricket · 05-19-2008, 12:06 PM

Maguffin Shmaguffin.

Kevy Baby · 05-19-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Nope, sorry. Ghoulish Delight Johnson is right.

OK: iSm gets bonus points in my book for the Blazing Saddles reference!

05-19-2008, 11:26 AM	#51
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	So? The Grail cannot pass beyond the great seal. Fine. He could have easily said the power of the Grail does not operate beyond the great seal. He didn't. All one has to do, in the stated mythology, to gain immortality is to DRINK from the Grail. Both Indy and his dad do so. You don't have to carry the Grail on your belt for all eternity once you've taken a drink. SHENANIGANS. Professor Jones and Junior are both IMMORTAL. No one said that immortality is cancelled if the Grail is taken beyond the seal. No one said you have to keep the Grail in the tiny chamber if you want your immortality thirst quencher to be valid. So why does the 700-year-old Templar Knight look younger in The Last Crusade than Indiana Jones does a mere 20-years later in Indy 4??? There can't be that much mileage!!
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05-19-2008, 11:33 AM	#52
mousepod You broke your Ramadar! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,635	Except that the Knight is one of three brothers who all drank from the Grail. And the other two are long dead. __________________ "Give the public everything you can give them, keep the place as clean as you can keep it, keep it friendly" - Walt Disney
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05-19-2008, 11:35 AM	#53
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	"and the price of immortality" That does kinda imply that one needs to have the grail with you to remain immortal. That you need to continually re-up the effects by drinking out of it for eternity. Of course, if that's the case, then what's the point in the first place? And why does there need to be a guardian knight if the only "benefit" is that you get to live in a cave forever? Who cares if the most evil person in the world succeeds in getting there if they can't be immortal outside the cave, and can't steal the grail without causing a cave in? __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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05-19-2008, 11:47 AM	#55
Kevy Baby Chowder Head Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yes Posts: 18,500	He who is valiant and pure of spirit may find the holy grail in the Castle of Aaauuuggghhh... __________________ The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot verify their validity. - Abraham Lincoln
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05-19-2008, 11:59 AM	#57
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Nope, sorry. Ghoulish Delight Johnson is right. There's zero point in obtaining the Holy Grail if your immortality depends on baby-sitting it all alone in a dark cave inside Petra ... for the rest of time. Also, as he noted after the screening ... Ho-Hum on the Maguffin being something that confers no tangible benefit on the Nazis, while the Lost Ark would purportedly have allowed them to conquer every army on earth via leveling mountains and laying waste to entire regions ... if it were not for the innate revenge motive of the God of the Hebrews to exact upon the Nazis ... also missing from the more ho-hum Grail of Christ. Also ho-humming about the quest for the Grail is that the prize is not gained till the end of the movie. It's so much better in Raiders when finding the Maguffin is not nearly the climax of the film ... but getting it stolen back and forth makes the last third an exciting game of the "Raiders" of the Lost Ark, and not simply a story of Indiana Jones. mousepod insisted Raiders is just as much walking from room-to-room for a new setpiece as Temple of Doom ... to which I reply, Balderdash. Stereotypical as it may be (and I daresay that's the point), having the Ark captured, stolen, re-captured, re-stolen is all great story stuff relating to the stated goal, and not simply stuff that happens as Indy walks into the next room of the same big building. Some may say it doesn't make a difference if the action is related to the Maguffin or not, but I disagree. Just as I find the later Bourne films greatly lacking without the opening "gimmick" of Jason's amnesia (not to mention a love story you care about), Temple of Doom is lacking for (among too many other things) the action not really relating to the Maguffin (and certainly not having a love story you care about)
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05-19-2008, 12:01 PM	#58
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	Being good archaeologists, hopefully the Jonses reported where and when they saw the cup last. And they should also say it may be near the dead body of Elsa Schneider.
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05-19-2008, 12:06 PM	#59
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	Maguffin Shmaguffin.
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