Ta Ta Jesse Helms

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Again... Just because someone has some good qualities does not - any any way - forgive or lessen the evil they have done.

***WARNING*** Godwin's Law is about to be invoked:

Hitler loved dogs. Does that make what he did ok in your eyes too?

Really? So if someone does something wrong, nothing good they do redeems their errors? Such as Helms work wth Bono in relations to AIDS in Africa? No redemptive value because he did not totally capitulate all of his views to align with yours?

When you can find where I said everything he did was "ok" this question may have merit.

The man was wrong. He was not evil- at least by my definition.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Really? So if someone does something wrong, nothing good they do redeems their errors? Such as Helms work wth Bono in relations to AIDS in Africa? No redemptive value because he did not totally capitulate all of his views to align with yours?

When you can find where I said everything he did was "ok" this question may have merit.

The man was wrong. He was not evil- at least by my definition.

It's a matter of degree. If those bad things they do are truly evil, then it might. Helms was a truly evil man - evil in his words and deeds. No amount of incidental good deeds are going to change that.

And if you can not see that what he stood for is wrong, then I feel very sorry for you.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I've no appreciation for the man, but I'm going to change JW's quote to illustrate the circular logic of finger-pointing about personal moral codes.

Originally Posted by someone of Helms' ilk

It's a matter of degree. If those bad things they do are truly evil, then it might. Gays do evil by having gay sex. No amount of incidental good deeds are going to change that.

And if you can not see that it is wrong, then I feel very sorry for you.

We're never going to change anyone's minds with this argument - it's a deadlock where both sides believes the other is wrong. If repeating loudly that Helms was TEH EVIL and you're glad he's dead makes you feel better today, then have at. But I don't think it's going to help the world understand anything differently.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by JWBear

It's a matter of degree. If those bad things they do are truly evil, then it might. Helms was a truly evil man - evil in his words and deeds. No amount of incidental good deeds are going to change that.

And if you can not see that what he stood for is wrong, then I feel very sorry for you.

I suspect your hatred of the man has impaired your ability to read what I said. I said repeatedly he stood for many things I do agree are wrong- but I do not agree that everything he did and believed was evil.

It's a disagreement of degree JW- I have no need of pity.

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I don't have hatred for him, nor am I grave dancing. I don't see any good that came from his life, except maybe to serve as a warning to others who consider intolerance acceptable.



Why don't you just ignore the thread then.

I just said I would- why the snark? And before you justify the snark by commenting on the fact that I returned to the thread- I will tell you I only came back to see what LSPE had posted- because I find her posts to be excellent and worthy of entering even a thread such as this.

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I've no appreciation for the man, but I'm going to change JW's quote to illustrate the circular logic of finger-pointing about personal moral codes.

We're never going to change anyone's minds with this argument - it's a deadlock where both sides believes the other is wrong. If repeating loudly that Helms was TEH EVIL and you're glad he's dead makes you feel better today, then have at. But I don't think it's going to help the world understand anything differently.

Well stated-

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I said repeatedly he stood for many things I do agree are wrong- but I do not agree that everything he did and believed was evil.

So....how many evil things does one have to do to cross the line, then? No one is 100% good or evil. So he did one good thing, great, cross off one of the bad things he said on the list mousepod posted. Is it even worth mentioning when so many bad things remain?

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I've no appreciation for the man, but I'm going to change JW's quote to illustrate the circular logic of finger-pointing about personal moral codes.



We're never going to change anyone's minds with this argument - it's a deadlock where both sides believes the other is wrong. If repeating loudly that Helms was TEH EVIL and you're glad he's dead makes you feel better today, then have at. But I don't think it's going to help the world understand anything differently.

Someone who thinks like Helms might say that, but it's a terrible analogy. Gays having gay sex hurts no one. The things Helms and is ilk said and did (and continue to say and do) are very damaging. I find comparing the two to be very insulting.

I said before that I do not celebrate his death. I'm not grave dancing. But I refuse to stop speaking out against the evils he did just because he's now dead. Death gives no one a free pass to redemption.

It is not hatred to oppose that which is wrong. I do not feel hatred for him, only disgust.

And yes, I do believe he was evil. He had a black and hate filled soul. The world is far better off without his ilk.

I do feel a great sadness that some here feel they must defend the man.