Offshore Drilling Ban to be Lifted by Bush

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Not too many years ago, the exact same things were being said about the Democratic Party.

Originally Posted by Tref

How does the kool-aid taste, brother, sweet, or bitter?

Okay, I will accept that I made a claim without supporting evidence. However, this was something being itterated a couple of decades ago (I want to say either after the second Reagan election or after the Bush the first election) and I am having a hard time finding info on it.

However, the statement I made was simply just an issue of responding to the "Conservatives are falling" statements. The statements seemed to indicate you believed that the Republican Party was coming to an end. And this simply is not true (despite how much some people may want it).

But the bottom line is that I personally would like to see a major upheaval in this country with BOTH of the major parties falling by the wayside and a whole new crop of people coming in. BOTH parties are responsible for some major f-ups of this country.

And I am NOT a Bush supporter - far from it. While I don't believe he is the anti-Christ as some Conservatives would paint him, I believe he is sucking off the teet of the religious right too much as well as various blunders in the handlkng of many issues.

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Who would you rather have making the profits: the "rich oilmen" or the Saudi's? ...

And I have no problem with the money being kept domestically (rather than paying OPEC). That means AMERICAN JOBS ...

Originally Posted by Tref

How does the kool-aid taste, brother, sweet, or bitter?

I am not sure how to respond on these two points which you highlighted. Do you think that the Saudi's et. al. (yes - I erroneously singled out the Saudi's - sue me) are NOT getting rich off of oil? Do you believe that it is NOT just a few key individuals who are profiting off of their country's resources? Do you believe that only a few people in this country would benefit from oil being produced domestically?

Give me something concrete to respond to and I will be happy to do so. Until then, the Kool-Aid line is just empty rhetoric and lends me to believe that you really don't have a rational response.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Tell that to the good peons of Enron. (And all the others who have lost their retirement due to corporate greed, speculation and deregulation of the energy industry).

Do you believe that Enron (and World-Com, etc.) are the exception or the rule? I believe they are they exception. No, it is not a perfect world. Yes, there are greedy people in it (and there always will be).

You cannot make rules which limit growth. Otherwise, this country will stagnate and die. Yes, someone will always find a loophole. When that happens, you deal with it.

Deregulation is not a blanket bad thing. Many instances have benefited you and I - the American People (splitting up Ma Bell for example).

[Tref]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

... Kool-Aid line is just empty rhetoric and lends me to believe that you really don't have a rational response.

Empty, perhaps, tasty, yes.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Tref

Empty, perhaps, tasty, yes.

Thank you for confirming that you do not have a rational argument.

[Tref]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Thank you for confirming that you do not have a rational argument.

You're welcome. Come again.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Do you believe that Enron (and World-Com, etc.) are the exception or the rule? I believe they are they exception. No, it is not a perfect world. Yes, there are greedy people in it (and there always will be).

You cannot make rules which limit growth. Otherwise, this country will stagnate and die. Yes, someone will always find a loophole. When that happens, you deal with it.

Deregulation is not a blanket bad thing. Many instances have benefited you and I - the American People (splitting up Ma Bell for example).

You obviously do not have Qwest as your answer to the MA Bell divestiture. I miss PNW Bell, as do most people around here.

Enron is the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps you can point out companies or examples that support your stance? I'll willingly change my tune if given some positive input. Oh, and the rules did not limit growth- they limited graft.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Tref

Hope for an end to poverty, hope from being sent to die in Bush's endless war, hope for better health care, hope for better race relations, hope from being lied to, hope for bluer skies and clean drinking water, hope for a return of our Constitution and our rights as citizens.

End to poverty? How much money has been transferred from the haves to the have nots? And yet is hasn't done much of anything for poverty - it's still around. If hope for ending poverty means more handouts, there isn't much hope to end poverty.

Endless war in Iraq? All things point to things going exceptionally well over there right now. Violence decreasing, Iraqi soldiers taking over more and more, removing 500 metric tons of yellow cake uranium and moving it to Canada (that they hadn't removed earlier due to fears of sabotage)....endless? Hardly.

Better health care? Doubtful. Again, government involvement typically makes things worse. Matter of opinion, I suppose.

Better race relations....how?

Bluer skies and better drinking water? Yes, as a republican I fully admit that I am against clean air and clean water.

Constitutional rights? I still don't understand this beyond the uproar of FISA, which as you stated, Obama voted for. And perhaps Guantanamo detainees, but they never were US citizens, so I don't understand the ruling. Maybe one or two are/were - I don't recall.

Hope from being lied to....I'm sure Obama will be completely honest about everything.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

You obviously do not have Qwest as your answer to the MA Bell divestiture. I miss PNW Bell, as do most people around here.

Let's see: we now have CHOICES in phone service. There is major competition amongst phone companies for your business. New products, services, and technologies, which we may or may not have seen without the breakup, have appeared (I believe mostly not, but we will never know).

Qwest and Worldcom were individual instances of this being less than a perfect world (something I have repeatedly acknowldged). But I believe that our economy is generally better off with de-regulation.

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Oh, and the rules did not limit growth- they limited graft.

Usually, the rules which keep monopolies in place and over-regulate industries limit competition which takes away the incentives for companies to innovate and grow. That is an econmics 101 lesson.

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Perhaps you can point out companies or examples that support your stance? I'll willingly change my tune if given some positive input.

It wouldn't be companies to point out, it would be industries. I believe that the phone company is a good example of that. No, it is not perfect, but I believe we are much better off overall with a deregulated phone system.

I am sorry I cannot expand on that, but I am running short of time.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

I truly believe that what the American Public is sick of the current two-party system and would like to see all of the old stalwarts (from BOTH parties) go away.

I would! I hate both parties. I have for a long time. Neither of them represent my feelings particularly well. I really wish a gajillion people would vote for the third-party candidates and show our discontent.

As for off-shore drilling, I don't really trust its safety. Things happen. Safety costs money. Nor do I think it will do much to lower gas prices.

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Do you believe that Enron (and World-Com, etc.) are the exception or the rule? I believe they are they exception.

The more profit available, the more likely to have another Enron. So maybe Enron is not the rule now, but likely to be in the future.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Let's see: we now have CHOICES in phone service. There is major competition amongst phone companies for your business. New products, services, and technologies, which we may or may not have seen without the breakup, have appeared (I believe mostly not, but we will never know).

Qwest and Worldcom were individual instances of this being less than a perfect world (something I have repeatedly acknowldged). But I believe that our economy is generally better off with de-regulation.




Usually, the rules which keep monopolies in place and over-regulate industries limit competition which takes away the incentives for companies to innovate and grow. That is an econmics 101 lesson.
It wouldn't be companies to point out, it would be industries. I believe that the phone company is a good example of that. No, it is not perfect, but I believe we are much better off overall with a deregulated phone system.

I am sorry I cannot expand on that, but I am running short of time.

Uhm, I believe there are many other places across this great nation who would agree that the companies they now deal with are far less service oriented, more expensive and provide really crappy product. I'm not saying deregulating (or rather, breaking up the monopoly of) the telephone industry was bad, just that it's not really proved to be much of a boon to anyone other than some CEO's that get paid way too much for too little.


Oh, and Kevy? I had two years in Gen.Business- studied macro and micro econ, administrative law, etc. Had a 3.9 average. Don't need the econ 101 lesson, but I appreciate your concern. I'm also wondering about the industries statement- which industries are doing better now (besides Wal-Mart style retail) and do they not have companies that carry out their production? I am hard pressed to find anything doing well in this economy, excepting the aforementioned Wally World.