Elizabeth Dole Says "Fück You" To Americans With AIDS

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Yeah, me too. I mean, she can't mean this any way but ironically, right?

...right?

[Moonliner]

Seeing as how I live near "Regan National Airport" this whole issue sounds like business as usual for our Marie Antoinette'ish government.

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Yeah, me too. I mean, she can't mean this any way but ironically, right?

...right?

I would hope so. This is a woman who held a major position in the Red Cross, after all. And in an ironic sense, it's the ultimate f-you to Helms.

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Yeah, me too. I mean, she can't mean this any way but ironically, right?

...right?

I don't know, maybe her position on "abstinence-only" prevention would be telling (which I honestly don't know).

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

I don't know, maybe her position on "abstinence-only" prevention would be telling (which I honestly don't know).

Well, I know some people who are gay-friendly but teach abstinence to kids. Hell, if I had a kid, although I'd teach them the basics of safe sex, I'd definitely encourage them to try not to have sex for as long as possible. It can make relationships very challenging. (I'm thinking of the Joss Whedon metaphor of partner-becomes-monster thing. It happens to many young people.)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Well, I know some people who are gay-friendly but teach abstinence to kids. Hell, if I had a kid, although I'd teach them the basics of safe sex, I'd definitely encourage them to try not to have sex for as long as possible. It can make relationships very challenging. (I'm thinking of the Joss Whedon metaphor of partner-becomes-monster thing. It happens to many young people.)

Teaching that abstinence is a better choice is different than the "abstinence-only" crowd. The "abstinence-only" movement wants to ban any education on birth control from education, disallow it from being taught. Dangerous sh*t if you ask me (and the data, in terms of pregnancy and STD rates, from existing abstinence-only education programs combined with the proven falsehoods offered by available abstinence-only curricula rather supports my view).

I'm all for stressing that abstinence is the only 100% guaranteed form of birth control/STD protection, and that it has arguably beneficial psychological benefits. But saying it's the most responsible choice is a far cry from pretending other choices don't exist and, more to the point, not properly preparing kids to deal with the realities, responsibilities, and consequences of those other choices. The only thing worse than an irresponsible young adult is an entirely uninformed irresponsible young adult.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Well, I know some people who are gay-friendly but teach abstinence to kids. Hell, if I had a kid, although I'd teach them the basics of safe sex, I'd definitely encourage them to try not to have sex for as long as possible. It can make relationships very challenging. (I'm thinking of the Joss Whedon metaphor of partner-becomes-monster thing. It happens to many young people.)

I basically agree with you because sex can have serious physical consequences. On the other hand, if the goal is to avoid emotional upset, I think more heartache would be avoided if high school kids were taught not to avoid sex but relationships that their minds, libidos, and long term plans can not rationally support.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

I basically agree with you because sex can have serious physical consequences. On the other hand, if the goal is to avoid emotional upset, I think more heartache would be avoided if high school kids were taught not to avoid sex but relationships that their minds, libidos, and long term plans can not rationally support.

Agreed.

I've never understood why people choose abstinence other than for reasons of pregnancy or disease. Sex is good! Enjoy it.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Sex is good! Enjoy it.

Oh, I quite agree. But when is a young person emotionally ready for it? I'm not one to deny that children are inclined towards sex. (I was, after all, caught masturbating at five.) But when do you cross the line from "sex is something wonderful and healthy that you do when you're emotionally ready for it" and "sex is something wonderful and healthy, go for it"? Surely it depends on every child... but I would think that some of them (myself included) think they're ready before they really are. For me, it's not a "sex is dirty/sex is bad" message I would send with encouragement for young abstinence. I just know from my youthful experience that sex can make things really complicated, and if you don't have totally open communication and honesty, when two people have different expectations, different fears, and different tastes, things can get confusing. Particularly when you're just learning the ropes of romantic interpersonal behavior.

As for encouraging them not to have relationships with the people they're drawn to... I have only seen that backfire and put distance between the parents and the children. Heh, look what it did to Romeo and Juliet. But then, encouraging abstinence can backfire just as much.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I was, after all, caught masturbating at five.

As was I. So now I get up at four.

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

As for encouraging them not to have relationships with the people they're drawn to... I have only seen that backfire and put distance between the parents and the children. Heh, look what it did to Romeo and Juliet. But then, encouraging abstinence can backfire just as much.

Would people have relationships in high school if they weren't scorned for doing otherwise? How much should high school relationships be considered "practice" for grown up relationships or marriage.