Elizabeth Dole Says "Fück You" To Americans With AIDS

[Gn2Dlnd]

Just read Alex's post, I'm now going with "(misguided) tribute to dead guys."

[Alex]

Though I am pleased to see that immediately prior to put this amendment proposal into the record the Senate dealt with the pressing issue of naming the week of September 8 to be National Direct Support Professional Recognition Week. (Though immediately before that they did express the sense of the Senate that Russia should be less of a dick.)

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

I don't know, maybe her position on "abstinence-only" prevention would be telling (which I honestly don't know).

Well, I know some people who are gay-friendly but teach abstinence to kids. Hell, if I had a kid, although I'd teach them the basics of safe sex, I'd definitely encourage them to try not to have sex for as long as possible. It can make relationships very challenging. (I'm thinking of the Joss Whedon metaphor of partner-becomes-monster thing. It happens to many young people.)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Well, I know some people who are gay-friendly but teach abstinence to kids. Hell, if I had a kid, although I'd teach them the basics of safe sex, I'd definitely encourage them to try not to have sex for as long as possible. It can make relationships very challenging. (I'm thinking of the Joss Whedon metaphor of partner-becomes-monster thing. It happens to many young people.)

Teaching that abstinence is a better choice is different than the "abstinence-only" crowd. The "abstinence-only" movement wants to ban any education on birth control from education, disallow it from being taught. Dangerous sh*t if you ask me (and the data, in terms of pregnancy and STD rates, from existing abstinence-only education programs combined with the proven falsehoods offered by available abstinence-only curricula rather supports my view).

I'm all for stressing that abstinence is the only 100% guaranteed form of birth control/STD protection, and that it has arguably beneficial psychological benefits. But saying it's the most responsible choice is a far cry from pretending other choices don't exist and, more to the point, not properly preparing kids to deal with the realities, responsibilities, and consequences of those other choices. The only thing worse than an irresponsible young adult is an entirely uninformed irresponsible young adult.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Well, I know some people who are gay-friendly but teach abstinence to kids. Hell, if I had a kid, although I'd teach them the basics of safe sex, I'd definitely encourage them to try not to have sex for as long as possible. It can make relationships very challenging. (I'm thinking of the Joss Whedon metaphor of partner-becomes-monster thing. It happens to many young people.)

I basically agree with you because sex can have serious physical consequences. On the other hand, if the goal is to avoid emotional upset, I think more heartache would be avoided if high school kids were taught not to avoid sex but relationships that their minds, libidos, and long term plans can not rationally support.

[Strangler Lewis]

The internet is a powerful thing. I just got an e-mail notification from Classmates.com that the person who inspired the previous post visited my profile last week. Perhaps Euro got a similar notice.

Anyway, I visited her right back. It's only been 24 years. After all, I've recently resumed contact with a childhood friend after 30 years.

But, back on track. I'm with the OP on Elizabeth Dole. Just another example of this childless, aggressive career woman trying to pass herself off as a family values conservative.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

I basically agree with you because sex can have serious physical consequences. On the other hand, if the goal is to avoid emotional upset, I think more heartache would be avoided if high school kids were taught not to avoid sex but relationships that their minds, libidos, and long term plans can not rationally support.

Agreed.

I've never understood why people choose abstinence other than for reasons of pregnancy or disease. Sex is good! Enjoy it.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

Sex is good! Enjoy it.

Oh, I quite agree. But when is a young person emotionally ready for it? I'm not one to deny that children are inclined towards sex. (I was, after all, caught masturbating at five.) But when do you cross the line from "sex is something wonderful and healthy that you do when you're emotionally ready for it" and "sex is something wonderful and healthy, go for it"? Surely it depends on every child... but I would think that some of them (myself included) think they're ready before they really are. For me, it's not a "sex is dirty/sex is bad" message I would send with encouragement for young abstinence. I just know from my youthful experience that sex can make things really complicated, and if you don't have totally open communication and honesty, when two people have different expectations, different fears, and different tastes, things can get confusing. Particularly when you're just learning the ropes of romantic interpersonal behavior.

As for encouraging them not to have relationships with the people they're drawn to... I have only seen that backfire and put distance between the parents and the children. Heh, look what it did to Romeo and Juliet. But then, encouraging abstinence can backfire just as much.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I was, after all, caught masturbating at five.

As was I. So now I get up at four.

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

As for encouraging them not to have relationships with the people they're drawn to... I have only seen that backfire and put distance between the parents and the children. Heh, look what it did to Romeo and Juliet. But then, encouraging abstinence can backfire just as much.

Would people have relationships in high school if they weren't scorned for doing otherwise? How much should high school relationships be considered "practice" for grown up relationships or marriage.

[katiesue]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

Would people have relationships in high school if they weren't scorned for doing otherwise? How much should high school relationships be considered "practice" for grown up relationships or marriage.

I read something about this a while ago but now I can't find it. They did a study and found that people who'd had relationships in high school had more successful relationships as adults than those who didn't. The ones who did had more realistic expectations of their relationships. The ones who didn't had more romantic expectations so ended up frustrated and dissapointed.