The Dark Knight - [spoilers ahead, ye be warned]

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

More than ever, I'm glad I never saw any of the Saw movies.

Psst - GD never saw them either.

They had to recast since Holmes bowed out. And...

Spoiler:

I'm glad they kept the character and killed her off just to give the relationship some finality. Chicks seem to come and go in these movies without rhyme or reason.

This series is doing a great job with the dirty cop concept, but I saw the chick lieutenant as on the take from a mile away.

It didn't even hit me that they left the Joker alive and Heath isn't....*sigh* I wish I could visit the alternate universe where the Joker gets another film.

Great little scene when Bruce Wayne sacrifices the Lamborghini and has to pretend he has no idea what's going on for Gordon's benefit....but gets his point across to the schlub who wanted to tell the world who he was.

Fight scenes were a bit sketchy but after my experience with Begins, I'd like to see it on my TV before I judge that.

GD caught the hint at Catwoman. Did anyone else? Man, I wonder how they'd do that up...just like with Nicholson's Joker, it's hard for me to imagine anything other than Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Gemini Cricket]

Christopher Nolan was involved with the Saw movies? I looked him up on imdb. Didn't see Saw appear under his list of credits...


(see saw... lol!)

[innerSpaceman]

Spoiler:

Hahaha, they use scared by acid a lot in the Batman mythos, huh?

I'm glad they didn't use that for either the Joker or Dent in this film series. I love how Ledger's Joker gives a half dozen different stories about how he got his scars!

No origin story is so refreshing.



That said, I also love the Burton take on it ... more comic-bookish and fantasy visual stylish. The sequences where Nicholson's Joker gets the acid treatment in a botched robbery attempt and the subsequent botched surgery resulting in his more comic-book visage are some of the best in that flawed but fantastic film.


And I get what Borneio means about the hero needing his opposite, but I understand why - - in a movie series, they might ultimately dispose of the villains, one by one. Eh, killing Nicoholson's character vs. Ledger actually dying ... it all comes out the same. Only one Joker movie per series.


I doubt they'd even consider re-casting Ledger's role in the Nolan series.

[Gemini Cricket]

Oh, embarrassingly enough I haven't seen TDK yet. I'm going tonight. I'll be able to jump into the discussion of the film later this evening.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Christopher Nolan was involved with the Saw movies? I looked him up on imdb. Didn't see Saw appear under his list of credits...


(see saw... lol!)

Oops, nevermind. I thought I'd remembered seeing that, guess I was wrong.

Well, incorrect credit on my part notwithstanding, my reaction remains. Too much time spent on overly complex back and forth of "Save this person, which puts that person in danger, and catch this person which only gives them the chance to free these people, putting that first person back in danger..." etc. It got wearisome.

[Nephythys]

Great movie.

Disliked the Bat-growl voice as well.

Did not see politics in the movie-not everything is a reflection on politics.

Found it painful to look at Dent's face- incredible effect.

I found Rachel to look haggard, and not at all attractive.

Going again on Tuesday-

[innerSpaceman]

GD, I disagree with you completely. There was really no plot to this movie, and instead we got what I found to be a suitable replacement - fantastic attention to the theme of moral dilemma.

And just as Batman's and Dent's dilemma's were crime fighting ethics (and thus naturally veered into Bush territory), the Joker's foisted dilemma's seemed very natural as human-nature experiments with death dealing.


I also don't understand how you can have the "I saw it in Saw" reaction if you've never seen the Saw movies. But your visceral reaction is your own. I might have the same under different circumstances, but I try really hard not to fault any art for doing what's done before, as long as it's done well.

Everything's been done before. If I feel that something has been done before a little too much, it just points up how provincial my experience with art / movies / music really is. It's all been done ad infinitum.




* * * *

I hope that^ was not too spoilerish. I intend to stop using tags completely starting tomorrow. Anyone who's so interested in not being spoiled, but they'd read this thread anyway is responsible for seeing the movie opening weekend or risk being spoiled.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

GD, I disagree with you completely. There was really no plot to this movie, and instead we got what I found to be a suitable replacement - fantastic attention to the theme of moral dilemma.

Oh, I get that. I just thought there was just too much of it. Trim out one or two twists and I'd have loved it, but it just seemed to go on and on without adding any depth.

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Spoiler:

Hahaha, they use scared by acid a lot in the Batman mythos, huh?

I'm glad they didn't use that for either the Joker or Dent in this film series. I love how Ledger's Joker gives a half dozen different stories about how he got his scars!

No origin story is so refreshing.

Spoiler:

Well, technically this was the origin of Two-Face its just not the focus and drawn out. It always bothered me that "origins" have to happen overnight. In DK we're told his origin disguised quite well.

[Gemini Cricket]

I really, really liked this one. I liked it better than Begins.
Heath Ledger was stunningly good in this. Bornieo may not see an Oscar for Ledger, but I do. Truly.

Spoiler:

CP & GD ~ Me me me! I noticed the Catwoman reference. I nudged my friend Stephanie at that point. Yay!

Include my voice in the Hates the Batgrowl Choir. Yikes.

Scarecrow, Two Face and Joker all in the same movie. Neat how it works for this movie and didn't work for Forever and & Robin.

Batman's escape with Lau was brilliant. Loved it.

I wasn't bugged by Gyllenhaal. I like her. There is a natural quality to her that allows her to avoid sounding campy or forced.

I don't know what it is, but something bothers me about Bale's mouth. I think he may have too many teeth... I dunno.

Couple of Bush jabs, pretty good imho.

I liked Eckhart as well. I liked him in Thank You for Smoking and Erin Brokovich as well. The Two Face effect was amazingly well done. Although, I doubt that the normal side of him would have any hair left. Hair burns really, really fast. The precise hair part kinda bugged me.

Okay, Ledger. Man! I was worried that his performance was over-hyped. It wasn't. He earned the praise. He was amazing. One of the best villains in cinema period. Ledger and the director decided not to make the Joker over the top in every scene. They chose certain moments for it to happen. They didn't overuse the laugh which I was worried they were going to do. I'm glad there were no 'feel sorry for the Joker' moments like a flashback or sad story... Like iSm, I'm glad there was really no explaination by him giving so many different origin stories. The best shot in the film, by far, is the shot where the Joker is just standing there while the Batcycle comes tearing at him. The look he gives over his shoulder is awesome! Perfect. His performance, as much as it made me happy, made me profoundly sad. The man's gone, his Joker is gone with him. Such a talent snuffed so soon.

Now, here's something I was trying to say about Indy 4 that was illustrated by this film. There was a plausibility to everything that happened in this movie. The flying... okay, maybe not so much, but it's one of those times that you suspend your disbelief. I suspended a lot during Indy 4 and that unbelievable events just made the whole movie a dung heap for me. Mostly everything that happened in TDK maybe could have happened.

This movie was dang dark. I kinda felt like I needed a shower after seeing it. The movie did remind me of Saw in several places. The phone embedded in the body, the grenade in the bank manager's mouth, the two ferries, the recorded footage of the hostage (Anthony Michael Hall - hahaha)... The Nolans seemed to have been inspired by the Saw films...

I give TDK high marks. It wasn't a perfect film, but it was great. I say it's a tie for best comic book movie with Spiderman 2.

I wonder who the next villain will be? Catwoman? Riddler? Penguin?