Offshore Drilling Ban to be Lifted by Bush

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

But I don't think oil companies are evil.

Earlier I posed the query of "Please provide examples of [how oil companies were gaining their 9% margin illegally, unethically, or immorally]. I am curious how this opinion is formed."

So far, no takers.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

Neither does Al believe carbon credits are evil.

So he can buy all he wants. I won't ask him to stop.

I understand literary reference AND bull**** all at the same time. I multitask.

Then you understand Napolean propped himself up as too important to follow what he made everyone else follow.

No need to apologize... not to me anyway.

It was a bit sarcastic. I don't think I've said anything unjustified abuot anyone in this thread. I haven't called anyone here a name or asked them to give it a rest. That's someone else.

[Scrooge McSam]

Kevy, do you think the Iraq oil revenue sharing plan proposed by the administration and supported by the oil industry is fair and equitable?

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I don't think they are evil either, however I do think that public policy should value their interests below the interests of society and the planet.

And that is a completely rational thing to want/expect. I don't think the policy of drilling now, though, puts the interests of society at risk - i see it as win-win. Cheaper gas (and grated that will take a bit) while other techs and infrastructure are developed and implemented. The planet? Yeah, accidents can happen. we had 3 mile island and Chernobyl but yet nuke power has advanced to the point of extreme safety.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I don't think they are evil either, however I do think that public policy should value their interests below the interests of society and the planet.

Is that an absolute? If so, then every single car would need to be taken off the road tomorrow (and every airplane grounded, every non-electric train, etc.). All fossil fuel burning power plants would need to be shut down. All sorts of things would have to happen that would not only be extremely inconvenient and dangerous to every person in this country, but would also send the economy into a complete tailspin.

We make the decision every time we get into our car, that today, our personal interests are more important than that of society and the planet.

Both personally and globally, we are making risk/reward assessments. No, oil exploration is not 100% safe - there will be a small amount of damage to the environment. But I believe that (as long as it is on US soil), it will be safe and will have negligible impact on the surrounding environment. Increasing our (the US) capability to be self-sustaining improves the safety of our country, economically and politically.

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Then you understand Napolean propped himself up as too important to follow what he made everyone else follow.

Yep, sure do.

What Al is asking you to do, he's already doing.

Your Napoleon reference is not apt.

Can that be put any simpler?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Is that an absolute? If so, then every single car would need to be taken off the road tomorrow (and every airplane grounded, every non-electric train, etc.).

No, because that would not be in society's interest

All fossil fuel burning power plants would need to be shut down. All sorts of things would have to happen that would not only be extremely inconvenient and dangerous to every person in this country, but would also send the economy into a complete tailspin.

What part of that is in society's interest?

I did not say I don't think oil companies should be allowed profit. But, as I've stated above, the only benefit I see from off shore drilling is to the oil companies, not to us. I don't expect it to lower prices to consumers. I don't expect it to lessen our dependence on foreign oil to any appreciable degree. I don't expect it to forestall the inevitable day when the world's oil supplies can no longer support us. And I do expect it to delay the hopefully inevitable day when we no longer need oil. All I expect it to do is temporarily allow the oil companies larger profit margins due to lower cost of oil speculation.

if they were make $9 million profit on $100 million in sales, there would be no problem. $9 billion on $100 billion is somehow a problem.

You know I seem to recall you chastising Obama for not being charitable enough because he had such a high income. Why do you hold an individual to such sliding scale and not an entity? If his willingness to part with his money for the greater good increases with increased income, why not the oil companies?

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

Kevy, do you think the Iraq oil revenue sharing plan proposed by the administration and supported by the oil industry is fair and equitable?

I can guess from the way the question is asked that you believe that it is not fair and equitable (if I assume incorrectly, please accept my apology).

So, since you do believe this, please explain why.

[Scrooge McSam]

No apology necessary.

I struggle with it. The oil companies retaining 70% does seem high to me. The Iraqi government certainly seems to think so as well, but of course they would, wouldn't they?. Of people I've talked to, most are surprised to hear the actual breakdown. I know I was.

And you?

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

No, because that would not be in society's interest.

But it would be in the PLANET'S best interest. Is society more important than the planet?

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

What part of that is in society's interest?

See my response above.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

But, as I've stated above, the only benefit I see from off shore drilling is to the oil companies, not to us. I don't expect it to lower prices to consumers. I don't expect it to lessen our dependence on foreign oil to any appreciable degree. I don't expect it to forestall the inevitable day when the world's oil supplies can no longer support us. And I do expect it to delay the hopefully inevitable day when we no longer need oil. All I expect it to do is temporarily allow the oil companies larger profit margins due to lower cost of oil speculation.

I guess we will have to disagree on this as while I don't believe that it will eliminate our dependence on foreign oil, I do believe that it WILL give us less exposure to the whims of madmen of the world and give us more flexibility. It probably won't lower prices (or if it does, it won't be by much) but I don't believe that it will increase oil company profits (or if it does, it won't be by much).

How about the fact that it WILL provide jobs for Americans? Is that something of relevance? It isn't a major factor in the decision, but it is still there.

ETA: and do you believe that an oil company making a profit is in no way beneficial to you? Who is it that benefits from oil company profits? As I stated above, more than 50% of the ownership of EM is institutional holders: Joe Public and his pension. Individual stockholders are negligible in this equation.

One last thing: EM's recent quarterly profit at 9% is DOWN from 2007 when they made 10.9%