RtS: IMAX at GardenWalk, Anaheim

[Ghoulish Delight]

I never denied that it could, in the future. It's not there now, so "Just take the bus!" is not practical advice for most people living in the present.

[Alex]

If you're going to have that many busses running, why not just install omnimovers or moving sidewalks (someone has to implement Heinlein's dream) throughout the county?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I never denied that it could, in the future. It's not there now, so "Just take the bus!" is not practical advice for most people living in the present.

Okay, I just read your post a little closer.

Pipe dream. "Easily upgraded to light rail"? Hahahah, you slay me.

The mass transit system in Southern California is improving steadily. It will be bounds better than it currently is, I have no doubt. But even cities that have had public transit integrated in from the beginning don't operate in any way remotely close to what you describe. There is no way that Southern California, of all places, is going to somehow stumble upon the magic formula that will allow public works to do what countless other cities, far more suited for it, have failed to accomplish.

[The Original OC Adventure]

Originally Posted by Alex

If you're going to have that many busses running, why not just install omnimovers or moving sidewalks (someone has to implement Heinlein's dream) throughout the county?

The cost would be incredibly high, plus OC is anti-rail (google Center Line).

All they need to get started is more buses and money to build center divider stations.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Okay, I just read your post a little closer.

Pipe dream.

Wow, The Original OC Adventure must have done something to really cheese you off.

Ease up man - he (or she) is just trying to be optimistic.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by The Original OC Adventure

The cost would be incredibly high, plus OC is anti-rail (google Center Line).

All they need to get started is more buses and money to build center divider stations.

And a fairy godmother to make that money appear. And another to widen streets like Bristol or Fairview that are already only 2 lanes in key stretches that would be nightmares if you dedicate one of those lanes to buses.

Sure, if we could wave a wand and start everything from scratch, a working system could be created. But we're talking about an enormously sprawling expanse of streets that has, over the span of a century or so, been designed without public transit in mind. There is no "easily" about any step of what you describe. Every little piece requires decades-long modification work, no matter how much money you throw at it. All of which would be delayed even further as resources will need to be diverted during the process to create temporary solutions for the real problems that exist today.

L.A. is doing it right. Start small, create a few hubs that serve a specific need (getting over the hill from the valley, getting east and west through the city, etc.). By focusing on solving a local transportation headache you ensure that 1) you'll have ridership as you will be meeting their needs and 2) demonstrate the viability of the system to create support for further funding. Once you've got a few local hubs running and efficient, then you can start expanding from there, connecting hubs and getting people not near those hubs more efficient ways of getting to them.

[The Original OC Adventure]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Pipe dream. "Easily upgraded to light rail"? Hahahah, you slay me.

Why not?

They could do it in three steps.

1. Reserve the left-most lane for buses, using center island platforms for stations. This would require doors placed on the left side of buses. Shouldn't be too hard to do.

2. Replace the fossil fuel buses with electric trolley buses.

3. Gradually lay track and replace the trolley buses with street cars similar to those used by the city of Portland Oregon.

It might take a couple decades, but in the end Orange County would be far better off.

The big problem with people living in Southern California is they lack vision.

Why can't we be the first in transit?

[BarTopDancer]

I'm still waiting for Kevy or OC Adventure to give me a workable bus route to suit my needs listed above. Or have they conceded that "just take the bus" isn't a workable answer for everyone and that the current OC bus system does not currently work for everyone's needs and some of us can't leave the car at home.

While they're at it, my other needs are to get from around the Irvine Spectrum to 92688 by 8am and to leave around 5pm.

And Kevy, I know I'm frustrated that OC Adventure (and you) seem to think that we're all just unwilling to sacrifice to their just take the bus comment from earlier.

[The Original OC Adventure]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I'm still waiting for Kevy or OC Adventure to give me a workable bus route to suit my needs listed above. Or have they conceded that "just take the bus" isn't a workable answer for everyone and that the current OC bus system does not currently work for everyone's needs and some of us can't leave the car at home.

While they're at it, my other needs are to get from around the Irvine Spectrum to 92688 by 8am and to leave around 5pm.

And Kevy, I know I'm frustrated that OC Adventure (and you) seem to think that we're all just unwilling to sacrifice to their just take the bus comment from earlier.

I never said it was perfect. It doesn't work for everyone, but it can work for a large percentage of the people who currently drive solo.

It appears that you live in an area that has poor service. Hopefully that will improve in time.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by The Original OC Adventure

Why not?

They could do it in three steps.

1. Reserve the left-most lane for buses, using center island platforms for stations. This would require doors placed on the left side of buses. Shouldn't be too hard to do.

2. Replace the fossil fuel buses with electric trolley buses.

3. Gradually lay track and replace the trolley buses with street cars similar to those used by the city of Portland Oregon.

So not only does your simple 3 step plan require investments of hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more, for each step, it's investment in things that would be designed to be made obsolete by the next step?

Put doors on the left sides of buses. But then get rid of those buses you've just spent about $100 million* on modifying in favor a different, more expensive kind of bus. But then dump those buses for another, even MORE expensive type of vehicle.

Seems to me it would make a lot more sense to start with a plan that's designed to make use of the money spent rather than throw money down the drain in pursuit of some master plan that's liable to have the plug pulled at any point down the line. L.A.'s model of building small, achievable chunks that, on their own address a need and can be later networked together to addresses more general needs strikes me as a far more reasonable solution that neither necessitates huge spending on temporary solutions that will be scrapped, nor leaves things in a lurch should there be a change in course/funding/popularity a decade or two down the road.



*OCTA's got about 1000 buses if my research is correct. If fixing a couple dents on GC's car door costs $5000, I think $10K is a lowball estimate for making that kind of modification to a bus.