Olympics 2008

[BarTopDancer]

As much as I enjoy watching gymnastics I think the entire culture surrounding it is unhealthy.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

As much as I enjoy watching gymnastics I think the entire culture surrounding it is unhealthy.

I'm not sure it is any more unhealthy than the figure skating, ballet or beauty pagent culture. Why is it that cultures dominated by girls are the "unhealthiest"?

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I'm not sure it is any more unhealthy than the figure skating, ballet or beauty pagent culture. Why is it that cultures dominated by girls are the "unhealthiest"?

I never said those cultures were healthy, just referencing gymnastics since that's what prompted the discussion. Those are all cultures that promote super skinny bodies on top of being athletic which in turn promotes and can coddle eating disorders to maintain the perfect body.

With boys, emphasis is put on being muscular and toned. Girls is you have to be skinny, even when you have muscles.

[Stan4dSteph]

It was fun to watch Olympics coverage in two other languages in France. (Euro Sport coverage was in German).

I even got to see some coverage of fencing, which was great.

[Tenigma]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

I'm not sure it is any more unhealthy than the figure skating, ballet or beauty pagent culture. Why is it that cultures dominated by girls are the "unhealthiest"?

OK keep in mind my views are very heavily influenced by having read that book ("Pretty Girls in Little Boxes"--see my previous post).

At least figure skating and ballet will garner a profession in a performance industry. Female gymnastics has NO performance career outside of a handful of Cirque jobs and the like (they have 9 Olympians on their payroll but I don't know if they are all gymnasts). Once you give up your Olympic/world competition regiment you are DONE. You start eating more than 900 calories a day (that's all the gymnasts are allowed to eat, even though they work out 6 hours a day), and you start having your period. Once you develop some semblance of hips and breasts, your career is OVER. And the gym and your coach? They will be busy working with prepubescent (artificial or otherwise) girls to mold them into the next Olympian.

Each of the tracks you mentioned have their faults. Interestingly, all of them are very stringent about food intake and a strong effort to stave off reproductive development (although that may not be quite so bad in figure skating or the beauty pageant circuit), but I believe all of them are exceptionally strict about dieting.

The thing is, when you take a 4-year-old child who has some flexibility or shows a bit of talent, and begin to mold them into these candidates, they aren't exposed to anything else--so OF COURSE they most happy when they are working out and they do well and their coach praises them. They are starved for affection and attention, and they know that if they don't perform well, they are ignored.

You know the irony of women's gymnastics? There is a single person on this planet solely credited with its current state of using little girls: Bela Karolyi. He was Nadia Comaneci's coach back when he worked with her in Romania, and he is credited with helping her perform the perfect 10s in the 1976 Olympics. It changed the entire landscape of female gymnastics. Up until then, most female gymnasts were oh, in their early 20s. There was a bit of controversy that Nadia was so young, but that all flew out the window when she did so well.

After that, there was a big movement to start them younger, to mold them earlier, and get them prepped to be Olympic-ready as soon as they were age-eligible.

And for all the harm that Karolyi did to women's gymnastics, the hunger for such success was so great that we embraced him with open arms when he immigrated to the U.S. to open his own gym here.

How is he so successful? A lot of people accuse him of abusing the girls. He berates them, insults them, is verbally and psychologically abusive to them publically. If you mess up, he won't even look at you. How's that for wanting your father-figure's love and acceptance?

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Tenigma

You know the irony of women's gymnastics? There is a single person on this planet solely credited with its current state of using little girls: Bela Karolyi. He was Nadia Comaneci's coach back when he worked with her in Romania, and he is credited with helping her perform the perfect 10s in the 1976 Olympics. It changed the entire landscape of female gymnastics. Up until then, most female gymnasts were oh, in their early 20s. There was a bit of controversy that Nadia was so young, but that all flew out the window when she did so well.

After that, there was a big movement to start them younger, to mold them earlier, and get them prepped to be Olympic-ready as soon as they were age-eligible.

And for all the harm that Karolyi did to women's gymnastics, the hunger for such success was so great that we embraced him with open arms when he immigrated to the U.S. to open his own gym here.

How is he so successful? A lot of people accuse him of abusing the girls. He berates them, insults them, is verbally and psychologically abusive to them publically. If you mess up, he won't even look at you. How's that for wanting your father-figure's love and acceptance?

I have no doubt that if the Karolyi's could get away with cheating and using younger girls, they would. Damn the US government and their record keeping.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Tenigma

And for all the harm that Karolyi did to women's gymnastics, the hunger for such success was so great that we embraced him with open arms when he immigrated to the U.S. to open his own gym here.

Ugh, I remember that. I was pretty young, but even I was creeped out by that whole series of events. I don't know if I became aware of that paradox in '84 when he was just coaching MLR or '88 when he was the head coach, but I just remember being pretty distressed that there was this lurking possiblity that his reformation was an elaborate facade and that he really was practically torturing the team.

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by Tenigma

Once you develop some semblance of hips and breasts, your career is OVER.

Hey now, hey now... I don't know about anyone else but I kinda thought Alicia Sacramone was a little on the 'stacked' side of things... And that Shawn Johnson... anyone looked at that ass. Might be the best one I've seen all games long.

And as much as I said that tongue-in-cheek, I am actually rather serious.

You know the irony of women's gymnastics? There is a single person on this planet solely credited with its current state of using little girls: Bela Karolyi. He was Nadia Comaneci's coach back when he worked with her in Romania, and he is credited with helping her perform the perfect 10s in the 1976 Olympics. It changed the entire landscape of female gymnastics. Up until then, most female gymnasts were oh, in their early 20s. There was a bit of controversy that Nadia was so young, but that all flew out the window when she did so well.

After that, there was a big movement to start them younger, to mold them earlier, and get them prepped to be Olympic-ready as soon as they were age-eligible.

Though I mostly agree, the pressures of 'communism' cannot be ignored for its treatment of not only gymnastics, but of other Olympic events, perhaps most notably swimming and diving. Watching the diving competition, you hear nothing but tales from athletes and correspondents of the age they are taken from their families to be (somewhat) isolated and begin training - much more rigidly than in the US.

In fact, they are crediting a recent change within the American system that has encouraged increased isolation (i.e. when they are starting their teens many world-class-potential divers move to Indianapolis where they can begin intense training at the HQ), a la China, with improving scores.

I'm not saying it's right, wrong, or anything - it is what it is, IMO.

[Tenigma]

Originally Posted by blueerica

Hey now, hey now... I don't know about anyone else but I kinda thought Alicia Sacramone was a little on the 'stacked' side of things... And that Shawn Johnson... anyone looked at that ass. Might be the best one I've seen all games long.

Well, let's set aside the fact that Sacramone failed miserably in the team competition, falling on her butt and whatnot. Ouch.

Shawn Johnson is a little packed powerhouse. She kind of reminded me a little of Mary Lou Retton.... just that huge burst of strength in such a tiny package.

If you look though, she had developed BUTTOCKS. NONE of the women had wide HIPS. Once your body starts to mature and your pelvic bones start to widen, and you get a noticeable waist and wider hips like an adult woman, it's physically more difficult to do some of those movements.

I agree with Alex. We should be judging adults on what adults can do, even if it means they might not be able to do quite the same limber stuff as a 14-year-old can do.

Steph -- that Time article is the ick. All the more reason for me to increase my hatred towards the Chinese government. Patooey!

[Gemini Cricket]

One of the (Bulgaria? Russia? not sure) volleyball players playing against the US last night had the last name "Gaydarski".
I found that funny in a juvenille, silly way.

I imagined him going around to all the athletes in a thick accent:

"You, American diving of synchronicity, you are a gay."

"You, rolling in sand with other female volleyball player. You are gay female like Etheridge, Melissa."

"You, Phelps. You are not a gay. But many queens across your country have crush on you..."

"You male gymnast, you are gay like male hanging out in Build-A-Bear Store without girlfriend."