Olympic Opening Ceremony

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Tenigma

Sorry, but they worked on it 20 years ago and look what happened. The government just kind of let the protestors do their thing until they'd had enough, and then they rolled in the tanks and just ran over everyone.

Honestly, that picture in your av is one of my favorite pictures of all time. I really love it.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Okay, then I guess they should just give up.

[Tenigma]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Okay, then I guess they should just give up.

Only if they don't want to be shot in the back.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Long ago in this thread I said that it was obvious that the message and ideals presented in the Opening Ceremony were sugar coated and fiction. That it was what they'd like us to think is happening rather than what is actually happening.

But as sugar coated as the Opening Ceremony version was, the sentiments presented DO exist in China, and they are the sentiments that the world needs to encourage if they are ever to get out from under the shadow of a ruling class that has 4000 years of entrenchment. It's not going to happen now, and it's not going to be bloodless. But it's worth letting the real live people that DO see a path towards a world where their history can coexist with openness and freedom that we agree and would like to see them get there.

ETA: And I'll reiterate I'm not thrilled about Bush showing up. There was no precedent of courtesy that required him to be there and I feel it gives a dangerous government too much credence.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Long ago in this thread I said that it was obvious that the message and ideals presented in the Opening Ceremony were sugar coated and fiction. That it was what they'd like us to think is happening rather than what is actually happening.

When I was watching, my only thought was, "hey, this is neat visual and auditory entertainment." Never once did I associate the show with what the Chinese government may or may not be like.

Unfortunately, I know that some people get swayed by this kind of propaganda. Not anyone on this board, but many people, sadly, do.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

When I was watching, my only thought was, "hey, this is neat visual and auditory entertainment." Never once did I associate the show with what the Chinese government may or may not be like.

Just because you weren't thinking it doesn't mean it wasn't there. There were clear themes and messages being portrayed about China, its people, and at least one view on how its history informs the country now and going forward. How much of that was the work of the director, Zhang Yimaou, vs. how much was what the Chinese government would let him get away with is obviously a murky question, to put it mildly. But regardless of whatever propoganda agendas the government was using it for, I see it as a starting off point for an international conversation that, in the most optimistic world, puts China on a path where the government can no longer keep the eyets of the world off of 1/5th of our population and brings a level of scrutiny that is necessary for the drastic change that needs to take place.

[scaeagles]

More revealed as faked

Apparently, the 56 ethnic Chinese children - claimed to be all from the minorities they were representing - we all from the majority group of Han Chinese.

[wendybeth]

Honestly, I think the communist mindset encourages fakery, for a variety of reasons that I'm too damned lazy to go into. The Soviets were great at it as well- they cheated and broke every rule they could, and if that didn't work the threat of violence would. Their people go along with it because they have no choice (generally speaking, of course) but in the end the rest of the world is just resigned to it happening. I'm not saying that other nations don't cheat, but the Chinese seem to be incapable of doing anything without adding that element to the equation. Their products are not only largely sub-par, they're frikking dangerous these days. It was the same in the Soviet Union- the only way people could get decent food, clothing and other material goods was on the black market. I'm really intrigued by the Chinese market- it's this weird moshing of capitalism and socialism, mixed up with the aforementioned mindset but trying to do business in a post-industrial revolution world that expects relatively safe products and honest dealings. I'm also intrigued by what can happen there politically- those young professionals in the big cities are getting mighty comfy living a Western lifestyle; if the ruling party decides to put the kabosh on the whole experiment it could get pretty messy.

[€uroMeinke]

I wonder what we might fear more - a powerful communist squashing freedoms in it's attempts to control everything, which if we believe our own nationalist philosophy must really be hobbled by it's bureaucracy - or a free capitalist China where it's morality is dictated by market forces.

[lizziebith]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

<snip>or a free capitalist China where it's morality is dictated by market forces.

Don't we have that here?