LA commuter train wreck - Page 2

Kevy Baby · 09-13-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~MS~

My heart goes out to all the victims but I find it ironic that not one mention of the lost of the freight crew has been made in any report I've read, 3 crew were aboard that engine and I'm 99.9 percent sure all 3 perished.

If it makes you feel any better, there have been many mentions on the reports I was listening to early (radio - KNX 1070). Although they mentioned that it was only two on the freight train (not uncommon to have incorrect details early on).

One small thing I DID have an issue with last night was the special honor procession for the LAPD officer when they brought out her body (if you didn't see it, a couple of hundred LAPD and LASD officers lined the route when they carried the body from the train wreckage to the triage area). The reason is pissed me off is (since she wasn't killed in the line of duty - she was just another commuter on her way home) was that they brought in off-duty officers to help create the honor line. If someone that belonged to just about any other group been killed, they would not have been allowed to bring in lines of people to provide an honor guard for their fallen friend.

If for example, one of the dead was an employee of Edison, would a couple of hundred Edison employees have been allowed to create the same honor processional.

Again, not a big beef: just something I noticed.

Kevy Baby · 09-13-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoasterMatt

Ironically, the NIMBYs in the area are now screaming that they didn't like the "multiple tracks" - because they'd mean more accidents -

No, not allowing rail systems to be built with separate tracks instead of mixed use rail with sidings allows more chance for accidents.

I know that there are separate tracks down where the Chatsworth Metrolink Station is and that the two tracks don't merge into one until just before the curve. (which is new, because when I lived in Chatsworth, they merged about 50' North of Devonshire). I will concede that is is not practical to have two tracks much further north of the accident as there is a long tunnel going through the Santa Susana Mountains into Slimi Valley.

~MS~ · 09-13-2008, 05:42 PM

I can appreciate your position even if I disagree, public service personnel tend to have a 'one of our own' mentality and I would hazard a guess that of those off duty officers not one was ordered to the site but in fact drove there of their own choice. Another poster on another site was furious that the rescue operations had halted momentarily while they extracted the officers remains and lowered her to the ground. By the time they brought her out it had gone from a rescue to a recovery operation and the presence of those officers gave the entire rescue team a moment to allow themselves to grieve at the horror they'd been dealing with all afternoon. It 'cost' the county/city nothing and it let those men and women have a moment before digging back into the carnage.

Kevy Baby · 09-13-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~MS~

I can appreciate your position even if I disagree, public service personnel tend to have a 'one of our own' mentality and I would hazard a guess that of those off duty officers not one was ordered to the site but in fact drove there of their own choice.

I'll start by reiterating that this isn't a big deal to me; just something I noticed.

But, for example, we here at LoT are a very tight group as well. Had 'one of our own' been in that wreck and we had all driven to the crash site of our own volition, would we been allowed to have made a similar processional?

~MS~ · 09-13-2008, 07:28 PM

I think we both know that the probability would be unlikely. I won't go so far as to say no way because I have no idea if any other group were notified that they lost one of their own and denied the opportunity. If she had been in street clothes I doubt they would have been able to identfy her as an off duty officer but I'm sure that one of the rescue workers found her, made a positive ID and contacted one of the Captains on site that they had a downed officer. Considering that everyone is listening to the radio transmissions the news traveled allowing the group to gather. Even so she wasn't afforded much special treatment considering they still left her on the train while they worked diligently to try and find any survivors so I'm OK with allowing the honor guard to assemble.

Bootstrap Bill · 09-13-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoasterMatt

Ironically, the NIMBYs in the area are now screaming that they didn't like the "multiple tracks" - because they'd mean more accidents -

No, not allowing rail systems to be built with seperate tracks instead of mixed use rail with sidings allows more chance for accidents.

I'd like to see Metrolink replaced with a totally grade separated rail line, either elevated or burried, I don't care which.

CoasterMatt · 09-13-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

I'd like to see Metrolink replaced with a totally grade separated rail line, either elevated or burried, I don't care which.

So would I.

~MS~ · 09-13-2008, 07:55 PM

That would be a great way to reduce the risks but the cost is so outrageous that it's really unlikely to ever become a reality. Even if it were on it's on track human error leads to catastrophe....this accident was human error, had the engineer followed procedure then the two trains would have passed safely. I won't speculate on the story that has come out about how he was texting with some teen...it could have been exhaustion, hell he could have had a heart attack in which case it wasn't human error but just a tragedy. Separate tracks would reduce the risk but not eliminate it.

alphabassettgrrl · 09-14-2008, 05:08 PM

The other crew member denied the engineer was texting.

The system appears to have worked. Train did not stop at red light, warning flashed at the remote site that tracks these things, person called the train to say stop, but was too late.

Bad bad scene. I hope it doesn't scare people away from public transit, though.

~MS~ · 09-14-2008, 05:58 PM

Actually what was said was that they doubted he was texting since it's against the rules of the company. Having said that how many people break the rules by being online doing personal stuff while at work, cell phones were against the rules when my husband was working maintenance of way and all the guys had them, carried them with them and on breaks they would make calls, to include the supervisors. I will be surprised if the engineer texting is a factor in the crash but it's not impossible. At this point the only thing that is 'certain' is that the metrolink train was in the wrong. Why and how it got there is open to speculation from human error to mechanical/computer system glitch. If texting is involved it's very easy to investigate if in fact there were outgoing text messages from his phone at the time immediately prior to the crash.

09-13-2008, 05:42 PM	#13
~MS~ One Happy little Missy! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 658	I can appreciate your position even if I disagree, public service personnel tend to have a 'one of our own' mentality and I would hazard a guess that of those off duty officers not one was ordered to the site but in fact drove there of their own choice. Another poster on another site was furious that the rescue operations had halted momentarily while they extracted the officers remains and lowered her to the ground. By the time they brought her out it had gone from a rescue to a recovery operation and the presence of those officers gave the entire rescue team a moment to allow themselves to grieve at the horror they'd been dealing with all afternoon. It 'cost' the county/city nothing and it let those men and women have a moment before digging back into the carnage. __________________ "Sometimes Miracles Hide"
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09-13-2008, 07:28 PM	#15
~MS~ One Happy little Missy! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 658	I think we both know that the probability would be unlikely. I won't go so far as to say no way because I have no idea if any other group were notified that they lost one of their own and denied the opportunity. If she had been in street clothes I doubt they would have been able to identfy her as an off duty officer but I'm sure that one of the rescue workers found her, made a positive ID and contacted one of the Captains on site that they had a downed officer. Considering that everyone is listening to the radio transmissions the news traveled allowing the group to gather. Even so she wasn't afforded much special treatment considering they still left her on the train while they worked diligently to try and find any survivors so I'm OK with allowing the honor guard to assemble. __________________ "Sometimes Miracles Hide"
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09-13-2008, 07:55 PM	#18
~MS~ One Happy little Missy! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 658	That would be a great way to reduce the risks but the cost is so outrageous that it's really unlikely to ever become a reality. Even if it were on it's on track human error leads to catastrophe....this accident was human error, had the engineer followed procedure then the two trains would have passed safely. I won't speculate on the story that has come out about how he was texting with some teen...it could have been exhaustion, hell he could have had a heart attack in which case it wasn't human error but just a tragedy. Separate tracks would reduce the risk but not eliminate it. __________________ "Sometimes Miracles Hide"
	Submit to Quotes

09-14-2008, 05:08 PM	#19
alphabassettgrrl Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,978	The other crew member denied the engineer was texting. The system appears to have worked. Train did not stop at red light, warning flashed at the remote site that tracks these things, person called the train to say stop, but was too late. Bad bad scene. I hope it doesn't scare people away from public transit, though. __________________ Why cycling? Anything [sport] that had to do with a ball, I wasn't very good at. -Lance Armstrong
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09-14-2008, 05:58 PM	#20
~MS~ One Happy little Missy! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 658	Actually what was said was that they doubted he was texting since it's against the rules of the company. Having said that how many people break the rules by being online doing personal stuff while at work, cell phones were against the rules when my husband was working maintenance of way and all the guys had them, carried them with them and on breaks they would make calls, to include the supervisors. I will be surprised if the engineer texting is a factor in the crash but it's not impossible. At this point the only thing that is 'certain' is that the metrolink train was in the wrong. Why and how it got there is open to speculation from human error to mechanical/computer system glitch. If texting is involved it's very easy to investigate if in fact there were outgoing text messages from his phone at the time immediately prior to the crash. __________________ "Sometimes Miracles Hide"
	Submit to Quotes