Bye Bye Banks and Wall Street

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Okay, so the 700-point drop is affecting me right now at this very moment. It's scaring my company's potential customers off pursuing real estate right now, and therefore they don't need what I'm selling (access to foreclosure database). So my performance and commissions are being directly affected.

There, proof that this does affect people directly, even if only because of the effect the emotions have on everything else that happens.

Of course, sales suck in a bad market anyway... just worse when what you're selling relates to one or more of the markets in trouble.

In the last three hours? I doubt that. The crisis as a whole is causing that effect not a one day drop in the market. The drop is a symptom not the disease.

[The Lovely Mrs. tod]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Does whatever bailout they are proposing have any help for people who didn't fvck up and take on more debt then they could afford?

Or are us people who didn't get in over their heads expected to hold on for the dive.

A lot of people who went in "over their heads" didn't know they were doing it...there was a LOT of predatory lending and "pick your own payment" action going on out there.

The majority of foreclosures didn't have to take place. Most homeowners WANTED to pay their mortgage. But they were stuck in ARM's and neg am's and the banks, rather then working with them simply made land grabs. Wachovia sold homes without notifying their customers they were going to do it. Those houses are sitting empty now, and some guy is making a fortune painting dead grass green so they don't hurt neighborhoods plummeting property values any more than they already have been.

It would, most likely, take some sort of government intervention to accomplish it, but not to the tune of how many bazillion dollars? Take that empty house, put the owner back in it and give him a payment plan he can make for 12 - 18 months. THEN go back and see if the loan CAN be made workable. Call the terrified owner up and say, "okay, we don't want your house, we want your business. Let's see what we can do to save this."

And yep, I know there's WAY more to deal with than just that. But it's a jumping off point.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

In the last three hours? I doubt that. The crisis as a whole is causing that effect not a one day drop in the market. The drop is a symptom not the disease.

I was bitten by a mosquito couple weeks ago. I've started to develop a headache, and now nausea. Oh, and just today, my fever spiked to 103!

But hey, fevers break, it's just a symptom, so I shouldn't really worry.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I was bitten by a mosquito couple weeks ago. I've started to develop a headache, and now nausea. Oh, and just today, my fever spiked to 103!

But hey, fevers break, it's just a symptom, so I shouldn't really worry.

OK, so go with the idea that Goonies entire business has crashed in the last few hours just due to this one day drop in the market. I expect she'll be rolling in it as soon as the market recovers the 700 points.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

OK, so go with the idea that Goonies entire business has crashed in the last few hours just due to this one day drop in the market. I expect she'll be rolling in it as soon as the market recovers the 700 points.

I was more talking in the context of Kevy's post. I understand that the drop in the stock market has particular instantaneous effect, but that doesn't mean it's "just crap on paper".

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

That's not about to make me trust the wolves to suddenly guard the henhouse better. Congress? The Federal Reserve? The Treasury Department? The Administration? Oh, and add-in the Wall Street firms who would manage the re-packaging of the deabbeat mortgage debts for purchase by the government.

Makes sense to me.......who'd hire an arsonist for the Fire Dept?

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by The Lovely Mrs. tod

A lot of people who went in "over their heads" didn't know they were doing it...there was a LOT of predatory lending and "pick your own payment" action going on out there.

I don't buy the "there was a LOT of predatory lending and pick your own payment option" argument. There is no room for ignorance in a several hundred thousand dollar purchase. The terms were laid out in the paperwork, the people should have read it. Yes, there was some predatory lending - I was targeted. But I knew that I could barely afford it then and would be hosed with the adjustments.

Maybe I should have bought something I could barely afford back then. Then I would have property that I barely can afford that the government is going to help me keep and afford.

I'm not happy about having to pay for those who couldn't bother to read the fine print and got in way over their heads. It's [for the most part] their fault. And if there are lenders who failed to disclose the terms of what the payments could be, then they need to be responsible for this. Not me.

Try again.

Oh, and my rent? Pretty fvcking close to a mortgage payment.

[CoasterMatt]

The whole bailout package as currently put forth, reminds me of the Three Stooges, "Booby Dupes" - when Curly drills another hole in their leaky boat to "let the water out"

[innerSpaceman]

To answer Wendy, I own my condo. I don't care if property values take a dive, because I'm not looking to sell, nor am I looking to take out a home equity loan.

For that matter, I won't need a car loan for a few years.


This month, between art framing and a fabulous Halloween party, I'm going a lot deeper into credit card debt. But I'm finally out of IRS debt.


I have no savings and I have no investments.


All in all, I'm about the most non-affected person in America. Oh, and my job only gets more secure as the economy worsens and everone starts suing everyone else for the money owed.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I'm not happy about having to pay for those who couldn't bother to read the fine print and got in way over their heads. It's [for the most part] their fault.

Ditto. I suffer no fools. And BTD is right, there's no excuse for stupidity and ignorance with a multi hundred thousand dollar real estate purchase.

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Oh, and my rent? Pretty fvcking close to a mortgage payment.

Oh pulease. My condo association fee is pretty fvcking close to a mortgage payment, and I own the thing. I know I'd likely pay more in maintenance for an SFR (not to mention way higher property taxes), but I hate having a condo that I must shell out mortgage-level payments for on a monthly basis.