A Prop 8 challenge for swankers

[Strangler Lewis]

GC, maybe this is expedient, but it's BS. Obama says he's opposed to gay marriage. Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. The Bible says nothing about same sex marriage because it says that homosexuality is an abomination. Who is this ad supposed to appeal to/trick?

[Chernabog]

It is supposed to be a response to the lies of the Yes on 8 campaign, these statements aren't coming out of the blue. When someone says that Obama supports prop 8 when Obama does not, that is a lie. When someone says that gay marriage is talked about in the bible, when it is not, that is a lie.

I've read blogs and chatted with many people who don't believe in gay marriage but are voting no on 8 because they don't believe that their view of marriage should control everyone's, or that something discriminatory should be written into the CA Constitution, or that gay people getting married (even though they don't see it as a religious/"real" marriage) doesn't affect their own religious/"real" marriage. Saying you don't believe in gay marriage and a "yes" vote are not inextricably linked. Obama, Clinton, Biden, Schwartzenegger (who vetoed a bill which would legalize gay marriage, the bastard), etc. can believe that a "no" vote is the proper vote.

So nobody's being "tricked" here.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

GC, maybe this is expedient, but it's BS. Obama says he's opposed to gay marriage. Clinton signed the Defense of Marriage Act. The Bible says nothing about same sex marriage because it says that homosexuality is an abomination. Who is this ad supposed to appeal to/trick?

Obama officially opposes prop 8.

We got a recorded call from Bill Clinton urging us to vote no on prop 8.

There's no trick involved. Yes, they both have a less than helpful history on the issue, but they both officially oppose the prop.

[Strangler Lewis]

Clinton called me, too, and I hung up on him. When he signed the Defense of Marriage Act, I wrote him a critical letter. His fence sitting response was that he did not support discrimination against gay people. However, he said, the bill came before him and he signed it. Then, crickets. No attempt to reconcile the two responses. His support now is hypocritical garbage given that, even if 8 loses, the federal government does not have to recognize California's same sex marriages.

As for Obama, I submit that when someone is asked if they support gay marriage, the question is do they support gays being allowed to enter into state-recognized marriage. If someone says "No, I don't support gay marriage," that means they do not support gays being allowed to enter into state-recognized marriage. One can, perhaps, answer "I don't care what the state does, but I would object to my church performing such ceremonies," but, to my knowledge, Obama did not offer that refinement. If he's offering it now, it's inconsistent with what he said before.

I also don't see it as a terrible distortion to say that the Bible is against same sex marriage when it's against same sex sex. The No on 8 approach should not be about Bible study pilpul.

[innerSpaceman]

Really, it's complete Bullsh!t that Obama's against Prop 8. He doesn't support Gay Marriage, i.e., he supports Prop 8. Less talking out of both side of his mouth might make me less disposed to not vote for him Tuesday.

[Gemini Cricket]

Sacha Baron Cohen crashes Yes on 8 rally!
Source

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Really, it's complete Bullsh!t that Obama's against Prop 8. He doesn't support Gay Marriage, i.e., he supports Prop 8. Less talking out of both side of his mouth might make me less disposed to not vote for him Tuesday.

One of the big things that has turned me off to McCain is his illegal immigration crap.....he plays both sides of that issue in completely non spinable ways.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Sacha Baron Cohen crashes Yes on 8 rally!
Source

Aww, the article doesn't even say what his sign said!

Regarding Clinton and Obama's anti-gay marriage stances...I really do think times are changing regarding gay rights and that in the midst of it there is going to be some leftover debris from an earlier age. The electorate that is coming of age isn't going to let this crap go on for much longer and it's just a matter of time.

If either of them were for prop 8 I'd be seriously pissed off. But they are not, and they're not sitting on the fence either. Even though they both have a poor past on the issue, they are both against the prop, and to me, that's progress.

Ask McCain or Palin about their stance, contrast, compare.

[innerSpaceman]

I'm not saying McCain's better on the issue. I'm saying nothing turns me off about a politician much more than taking BOTH sides of an issue via cowardice or expediency.

I understand Obama thinks he can't get elected if he supports gay marriage. But coming out against Prop 8 IS supporting existing gay marriage rights. He can't have it both ways ... at least not with me. Ugh, he's not president-elect till tomorrow and already the lies start.

[Kevy Baby]

Regardless of whether either candidate comes out for or against Prop 8, to me it is (mostly) irrelevant. I don't want my Presidential candidate to be focusing on a state issue Yes, this can/will be a national issue at some point, but it isn't right now. My decision as to who I should vote for as President is NOT going to be based on their position on California's Proposition 8.