"Why Believe in God" ad campaign

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by David E

What I am saying is that our definition of murder comes from a Judeo-Christian value system. The ancient Greeks and the Nazis both systematically killed or euthanized deformed, retarded, or incapacitated people, but they didn't think of it as murder; in fact, it was very rational in terms of the efficient use of resources and functioning of the society as a whole.

And Jews stoned people to death for touching a woman while she was on her period. And Christians tortured and slaughtered people because they believed a little bit differently than they did. And they didn't consider that murder. So, as Alex says, our current Judeo/Christian definition of what is right has changed to catch up to the societal definition, not the other way around. People are perfectly capable of forming and refining the social contract without religion. If anything, the inclusion of religion in the discourse slows the process down as it's a force that resists what may be necessary change.

[David E]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And Jews stoned people to death for touching a woman while she was on her period. And Christians tortured and slaughtered people because they believed a little bit differently than they did. And they didn't consider that murder. So, as Alex says, our current Judeo/Christian definition of what is right has changed to catch up to the societal definition, not the other way around. People are perfectly capable of forming and refining the social contract without religion. If anything, the inclusion of religion in the discourse slows the process down as it's a force that resists what may be necessary change.

Pointing out awful practices that members of a group did does not mean their value system is bad unless those things are proclaimed to be an integral part of it. It was after the Jews entered into a pact with God to worship only him that the golden calf was brought into the temple. The Bible is a story of human failing and struggle. People don’t always live up to their standards, but that doesn’t make the standard wrong. So to be fair, we have to ask: were these acts prescribed by their philosophy, or were they done contrary to it? This is a question that many are asking of Islam today.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by David E

Pointing out awful practices that members of a group did does not mean their value system is bad unless those things are proclaimed to be an integral part of it.

Read Leviticus and go count the number of reasons God says we should kill people. And I guarnatee you that Torquemada would happily have pointed out to you how integral in the bible what he carried out was.

It was after the Jews entered into a pact with God to worship only him that the golden calf was brought into the temple.

The golden calf was never brought to the temple it was made in the desert at the foot of Sinai while Moses was receiving the 15 10 Commandments.

I think it’s overly cynical to say that everything is ultimately selfish.

Again, it's only "cynical" if you buy into the fallacy that "selfish" is inherently a bad thing.

Maybe not so silly if you learn the background and wisdom behind some of the practices. Having a Sabbath or day of rest once a week from TV and computers could lead to a happier, more mentally healthy life and people be more inclined on that day to bond and empathize with friends, for example.

This just makes me think of that skit Flippyshark posted, The Stool. "Just let Jesus make your decisions for you and don't ask why." Umm, the WHY is the important part. If taking a day of rest leads to better physical and mental health, then take a day of rest because it leads to better physical and mental health, not "because God said so." Otherwise, how do you expect people to come to rational conclusions on new moral challenges that are not explicitly covered in their choice of god handbook?

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

The golden calf was never brought to the temple it was made in the desert at the foot of Sinai while Moses was receiving the 15 10 Commandments.

VGDM from Mel Brooks.