Michael Vicks Dogs - One Year Later

[Morrigoon]

Bewitched:

I would have believed that too, but for the Pit mix my mom fostered with her rescue group. The dog was still a puppy when rescued. She had "Lucky" for several months, so basically "raised" him. Very sweet temperament.

... Until he killed a puppy she was also fostering.

Actually, there were signs of his aggression problem earlier, as he got into a couple fights with her beagle that resulted in a trip to the vet and stitches. But because of Daisy's personality, we assumed she'd picked the fight.

My point is, the pitbull danger is nature, NOT nurture. Even if it can be aggravated by nurture, they have innate aggression issues which you might not even be aware of most of the time because they're usually super sweet. But pits can turn ON A DIME.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

Bewitched, your post surprises me because it sounds perilously close to a lot of the junk one hears from pit bull owners whose dogs have just attacked someone: "I can kick my dog's ass, so I'm shocked that it attacked a small child in the neighborhood."

I in no way would claim that I can kick a pitbull's ass. That is not at all what I mean. Dogs are pack animals. The leaders of the pack don't lead by violence. They lead with calmness, assertiveness and simple discipline when needed. There are many people who love and own dogs who are not calm and assertive or "dominant" personalities. And there are some dogs who "need" a leader and will fill that role if need be. These type of people have no business owning these types of "advanced" dogs. Kicking a dog's ass does NOT make someone a leader-- it makes them an asshole who has no business owning a dog. When a dog bites, there can be many reasons behind it. When a dog "attacks" it is almost always due to the owners inability to control the dog.

Like you, I don't buy that it was a wonderful dog who did nothing wrong...ever. There were signs, maybe subtle...but there were signs. Maybe a slight growl when the dog was petted while eating. Maybe a rumbling in its throat when a child went past on a skateboard...to an inexperienced person with an advanced dog, this is grumpy day or such. Dogs escalate their behavior. They growl at another dog to see if you will do anything, they snap at another dog...whatever. The poblem with pits and Rotties and Dobermans (and other like dogs) is they poke a little and then they explode. This is the reason that many rescue groups won't take pits in particular and will refer to a pit specific rescue; these dogs need to be handled by someone experienced with the breed.

So don't misunderstand me. I would never excuse the owner of a dog that mauled anyone; the dog has only become what the owner has made (or allowed) him to be. And as heartbreaking as I find it to be, the only acceptable solution is to put a dog like that down. Again, for this I blame the owner.

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Bewitched:

I would have believed that too, but for the Pit mix my mom fostered with her rescue group. The dog was still a puppy when rescued. She had "Lucky" for several months, so basically "raised" him. Very sweet temperament.

... Until he killed a puppy she was also fostering.

Actually, there were signs of his aggression problem earlier, as he got into a couple fights with her beagle that resulted in a trip to the vet and stitches. But because of Daisy's personality, we assumed she'd picked the fight.

My point is, the pitbull danger is nature, NOT nurture. Even if it can be aggravated by nurture, they have innate aggression issues which you might not even be aware of most of the time because they're usually super sweet. But pits can turn ON A DIME.

An excellent example of an "advanced" dog "escalating" behavior to see if (and when) the pack leader will reassert control (and who knows how many growls and snaps went on before that went unnoticed or were explained away). The pitbull problem is NOT nature except insofar as people have totally lost perspective and left out the "temperament" part of the equation in breeding (kind of like 2 people with a genetic disease having a child and then being surprised that the child has the same genetic disease*). Instead of breeding for calmness of temperament, people are breeding the "badass" factor. That is why, as I stated, I would never own a pit of unknown lineage with my 8 yo child around. I would however, not hesitate to have a well bred Staffordshire Bull Terrier or American Staffordshire Terrier (which is what pits generally are-- that or a mix with one of the 2) in my home.

And any dog can turn, "on a DIME". You just don't hear on CNN about the miniature poodle who bit its owner several times after being such a "sweet" dog for so many years.




*I am only stating this as an example, not as an opening for a eugenics argument and/or a commentary on my feelings, or lack thereof, regarding this statement.