RIP in 2009

[Ghoulish Delight]

Her name was Rappe, she was asking for it.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by Michael Jackson, from "Morphine" - Blood on the Dancefloor

Demerol, Demerol.
Oh God, he's taking Demerol.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Her name was Rappe, she was asking for it.

Um, no, she was not. Virginia Rappe was not only a hapless victim who died by causes still unknown (beyond a ruptured bladdar and a massive infection that killed her). She was also one of the first in a long line of "blame the victim" defense. Much like Lana Clarkson deserved being shot by Phil Spector.

What happened in Arbuckle's room for those 15 minutes will never be known, but Rappe was not a whore nor a drunk who deserved to die.

A friend of mine has been researching the Arbuckle trials for the last five years. Poor Virginia got not only a bad "rappe" she ended up very dead.

Arbuckle and his cronies at the party, (and the resoident doctor of the St. Francis) hotel shuttled her off to another room (1227) so as not to cast a pall on the festivities. Not one of them, Arbuckle included, inquire about herafter she fell ill. Only one person, the person she arrived with stayed with her until she was then taken to a local hospital a few blocks away on Sutter Street. Whereupon she had the ultimate bad taste as a guest in party pooping, to die.

Arbuckle's crack defense team then took the opportunity to sully her reputation for the sake of their client. And so it was writ.

Just to clarify things, GD.

[Tref]

Originally Posted by Snowflake

Um, no, she was not. Virginia Rappe was not only a hapless victim who died by causes still unknown (beyond a ruptured bladdar and a massive infection that killed her). She was also one of the first in a long line of "blame the victim" defense. Much like Lana Clarkson deserved being shot by Phil Spector.

I do not think it is fair to compare Arbuckle with Spector. For one, Arbuckle was found to be not guilty and by no less then three separate juries.

To quote one such Arbuckle jury, "Acquital is not enough for R.A. We feel a grave injustice has been done him and there was not the slightest proof to connect him in any way with the commission of any crime."

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Tref

I do not think it is fair to compare Arbuckle with Spector. For one, Arbuckle was found to be not guilty and by no less then three separate juries.

To quote one such Arbuckle jury, "Acquital is not enough for R.A. We feel a grave injustice has been done him and there was not the slightest proof to connect him in any way with the commission of any crime."

Arbuckle's attorneys wrote the statement, apparently for jury #3. According to my friend's reserach on the subject. Regardless, Arbuckle was screwed, too and suffered for the remaining years of his life.

I never said a crime was done with regard to Arbuckle. We will never know what happened in the room of 1219 for the 15 or so minutes Arbuckle and Rappe were in there. All evidence points to the fact she was ill and Arbuckle testified at the Grand Jury that he was helping her as she was ill. What caused her internal injuries nobody will ever really know. She was painted in the press as nothing more than a bad girl and ultimately as one who did not deserve to live. Yellow journalism and attorney's working to save their client from a manslaughter charge.

My point about Arbuckle and Spector was the defense use of blame the victim. Lana Clarkson was a person of quistionable character if you read some of the witness commentary for the defense, ergo, she deserved to die. Rappe was treated the same. That was my only point in referring to the case. If I confused, sorry!

[Ghoulish Delight]

Ummm, yeah, I know. Rappe--rape, purely a spelling joke.

[Alex]

Nice save you misogynist!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I'm firmly with Lashbear on this, great post by him. I don't know if anyone has read about Lewis Carroll but it was a very similar case. A man who liked being a child rather than an adult and had not-very-appropriate relationships with children. In both cases I believe that they did not actually touch the kids.

Even so, I'd never say "he wasn't convicted therefore he was innocent". I have to say that sounds ridiculous to me. There are plenty of wrong verdicts in court cases because they are conducted by human beings and are fallible.

I feel nothing but pity for these poor men regarding their inability to let go of childish things. I feel much more pity for those that have the same problems and aren't brightly shining genius millionaires.

BTW, Morrigoon makes a great point about not wanting to line the wallet of a man who at the very least seems unstable and at the worst may have harmed children. The Michael Vick comparison is pretty apt as well.

As others have said, their legacy is mixed, and that's the way it should be, as it's the truth, no matter how you look at it. MJ was a messed up person. Now that he's gone, we can celebrate the gifts he gave us, and not be concerned that he will cause any harm to anyone, anymore.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

As others have said, their legacy is mixed, and that's the way it should be, as it's the truth, no matter how you look at it. MJ was a messed up person. Now that he's gone, we can celebrate the gifts he gave us, and not be concerned that he will cause any harm to anyone, anymore.

This best sums up my feelings on it.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I don't know if anyone has read about Lewis Carroll but it was a very similar case. A man who liked being a child rather than an adult and had not-very-appropriate relationships with children. In both cases I believe that they did not actually touch the kids.

"I love children, I'd never hurt one" is a common enough refrain among child abusers. As to Lewis Carroll, who knows? We err on both sides, probably, being unwilling to assume the worst about nice respectable people and all too willing to assume the worst about mild eccentrics.

As to not wanting to let go of childhood, I think we all have our ways of doing that to some extent or another. But if you're going to talk like a toddler, walk up and down the street with a pony and invite little kids to come in your backyard and bury you in the sand, you can't blame people for what they think of you.