Even Worse Bus Ads: Britain Secularist Society

[David E]

In a related topic to the Washington DC bus ads, The British Humanist Association placed ads on London busses that make even less sense: "There's probably no God, now stop worrying and enjoy your life".

I think this merits a separate thread because it's a different argument against people believing in God. But it is an odd one because I thought the classic secular explanation for man creating God is the opposite: that he needed comfort and meaning in a ruthless world that he did not understand. So wouldn't there be LESS to worry about if a torturer or a murderer who was not punished in this life had to face justice in an afterlife, and the good were likewise rewarded?

One example from my own life: My friend from high school had a child named Gabriel, who was born with health problems. In fact, he never left the hospital and died when he was only 6 months old. He cried a lot and probably never laughed. So my question is: do you think my friend can stop worrying and enjoy her life more if there is NO God, or if there is a God?

[Not Afraid]

In other words, stop feeling the weight of all of that church-endowed guilt and enjoy your life.

Sounds like pretty good advice to me.

[Alex]

No, there would not be less to worry about if a murderer is to be punished in an afterlife. Until such time as we have evidence that people in the afterlife can continue killing people in the currentlife and that afterlife punishments prevent this, then I really can't give a damn what is happening there.

Also, separate belief in an afterlife (and the benefits or negatives of this) from the existence of an afterlife since they are independent issues.

Finally, your last paragraph makes little sense to me at all in what question you are trying to ask. If believing that god wanted her baby to die makes her feel better and that's how she can get through the day then who am I to personally try to talk her out of her little fantasia (personally it would make me less happy to believe that there was a god that wanted my baby dead but then I don't believe in it so I'm not trying to stay on its good side).

But that is moot as her belief in god again has nothing to do with whether there is one. If she believes in said god then the existence or non-existence of said god will not in any way impact her happiness level until such time as she is dead and finds out that she was wrong (or, implausibly, right).

That said, believing in something SIMPLY because said belief makes you happier is something that, except in this very narrow sliver of thinking, is generally regarded as defective. Personally, it would make me very happy to believe that if my child dies before its first birthday that 1989-era Elle MacPherson will come lounge about my apartment in a state of undress and grant me eternal life here on earth.

Somehow I doubt, though, that if upon the death of my child I went around saying "It's ok, because now I get naked Elle MacPherson and immortality" that people would smile for me and say "oh, I'm so glad you found this means of comfort."

[€uroMeinke]

Well, having lost a child at the 5th month of pregnancy I'm not sure how the existence of God would have made that experience any easier other than having a deity I could be angry with. God works in mysterious ways, so the the godless universe.

[Strangler Lewis]

I wouldn't deny anyone the consolation of religion, philosophy or the rainbow bridge. If it's important to someone to believe that the death of a suffering loved one is good because it means they are in a better place as opposed to simply being free from that suffering, I can't get too upset by that.

That said, if religion is supposed to be humbling, there's something not very humble in believing that the God who works in mysterious ways took a moment out of his busy day to lay a big steaming dump of mystery right in your particular lap.

[flippyshark]

Originally Posted by David E

I think this merits a separate thread because it's a different argument against people believing in God. But it is an odd one because I thought the classic secular explanation for man creating God is the opposite: that he needed comfort and meaning in a ruthless world that he did not understand. So wouldn't there be LESS to worry about if a torturer or a murderer who was not punished in this life had to face justice in an afterlife, and the good were likewise rewarded?

There's no contradiction here. Secularists are saying "Okay, we now have a much better understanding of the world than we did back when we invented all these gods. We know better now, so we can chuck that primitive notion and get on with our lives."

[flippyshark]

If in fact there is a theistic god, one who has moral preferences and will be handing out some form of cosmic justice in the hereafter, this being has not bothered to make itself known in uncertain terms. (Mythical stories of Shamash handing the moral law to Hammurabi, Yahweh giving the lowdown to Moses, etc, are fascinating historically, but obviously human in origin, no longer practiced, and incompatible with modern mores.) There is no single divine story that clearly stands out above the others, except where either individuals prefer it, or power structures declare and enforce it - add to that the fact that the vast majority simply take on the god beliefs they were born to. If I find myself in front of a deity after I die, I will join Bertrand Russell in asking, "Why did you hide?"

[flippyshark]

Here is an interview with Richard Dawkins, who supported the UK bus campaign, but has a couple of preferential differences with it. Always interesting reading with RD.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by David E

One example from my own life: My friend from high school had a child named Gabriel, who was born with health problems. In fact, he never left the hospital and died when he was only 6 months old. He cried a lot and probably never laughed. So my question is: do you think my friend can stop worrying and enjoy her life more if there is NO God, or if there is a God?

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat this as a theoretical, not an actual person, so please do not forward my answer here to your friend.

Your friend can stop worrying and enjoy her life more if she comes to terms with the fact that her baby died. A religious person would do so by telling themselves, "God has a plan, everything happens for a reason, my baby is in a happy place now." An atheist would do so by telling themselves, "People die every day, this is no reflection on me, at least my baby isn't suffering anymore." Both paths lead to the same result - coming to terms with a real fact, that the baby is dead.

The lesson I garner from this example is that in most situations, facing facts and then moving on is what is needed. How you get there is your own business.



I would say that this example has nothing to do with the intent of the ads. The ads are trying to say that you should not worry about God's plan, or God's vengeance, or God's requirements. That these things can and will impede upon your ability to enjoy your life.

Through my life experience I have found this to be true. Sure, you can be happy in the concept that someone will eventually iron out all the annoying unfairness in life, but it's a double-sided Sword of Judgement that can be swung your way at any time.

[David E]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

In other words, stop feeling the weight of all of that church-endowed guilt and enjoy your life.

Sounds like pretty good advice to me.

Well, sometimes guilt is bad, and sometimes it's good. Depends on what the guilt is over. You would have to give an example of what you mean for it to make sense.

Sounds like you may be speaking from personal experience, in which case you might want to consider whether simply not believing in God any longer (which I assume you already tried awhile back) lifted that burden from you, or does it still persist? In which case, the bus ads may not be so helpful on that front.
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I'm still a day behind in reading all the other responses since NA's. I'm outnumbered here with no allies to fill in for me if I'm too busy to log in one night, but I'll try to catch up!