Lost!

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by bewitched

But that's only with people actually on the island. What happens if you time travel to the island?

The plane was in the Island's airspace. It's like how Jin was blown off the ship then time traveled in the water. The island has a blast zone.

As for how they got from the plane to the land, my assumption would be that you never materialize in time in mid air - though they had it much better than Locke did in the well.

Originally Posted by bewitched

I meant to point out earlier that Locke is an example of this...he is dead in the real world and alive on the island. Both places at one time (well, really 3 years apart, but time isn't moving at a parallel pace). Granted, the circumstances are different but I think it is clear that TPTB's version of "time" travel allows for a person to be in more than one reality (place and/or time).

I don't think that's true at all. Locke was alive, then he left the island, and now he's dead. We were seeing it simultaneously because everything on the island was a flashback to just after the 6 left. That's why, now that they're back, they find Jin in a new circumstance, driving a Dharma van, because he's been living on the island for 3 years since they left.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Stan4dSteph

Anyone else watching Fringe?

I tried to watch it, and like it. I really did. But Olivia's voice annoyed the holy crap out of me.

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

The plane was in the Island's airspace. It's like how Jin was blown off the ship then time traveled in the water. The island has a blast zone.

But that doesn't negate the idea that they can occupy 2 different realities (times/places) at the same time.

I don't think that's true at all. Locke was alive, then he left the island, and now he's dead. We were seeing it simultaneously because everything on the island was a flashback to just after the 6 left. That's why, now that they're back, they find Jin in a new circumstance, driving a Dharma van, because he's been living on the island for 3 years since they left.

I've always had the impression that time moves much more slowly on the island than it does off of the island. I don't remember them ever insinuating or showing that they were just leaving out 2 9/10 years on the island. Jack stated that Locke came to him and Kate a couple of months ago (In There's no Place Like Home), not a couple of years ago.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by bewitched

But that doesn't negate the idea that they can occupy 2 different realities (times/places) at the same time.

Where do you see evidence of that idea?

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Where do you see evidence of that idea?

Originally Posted by Whitney

I don't remember them ever insinuating or showing that they were just leaving out 2 9/10 years on the island. Jack stated that Locke came to him and Kate a couple of months ago (In There's no Place Like Home), not a couple of years ago.

I'm also still standing by my feeling that I think they are skipping through time based on a parallel universe or multiverse theory, both of which postulate that all times exist concurrently and moving through time would not be skipping forward or backward linearly but moving from one already existing world (not constrained by time) to another. The most reasonable mode of travel between universes on the show, IMO (based on what I've seen) would be through wormholes (which, while not general referred to in most multiverse theories, does provide a means of travel which is not rejected in the theory). In this scenario, one would in effect, exist in two places at one time since the person entering the wormhole would only "appear" to be gone for an infinitesimally small fraction of a second to the people observing (ala the movie Contact). This would also explain why "windows are only open for a finite period of time" (as Eloise stated) since one end of a traversable wormhole in physics is generally regarded as being "accelerated" or to have a higher gravitational field than the other end, i.e. are not stationary. This allows for time at the exit to have moved at a slower pace than time at the entrance (although time within the wormhole would seem to move at a consistent pace).

I once heard someone describe parallel universes as "we are all living and all dying at all times"; in other words, we are, in effect, immortal. One of the guys that writes the show said in an interview that their concept of time travel was rooted in a scientifically accepted theory.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by bewitched

I'm also still standing by my feeling that I think they are skipping through time based on a parallel universe or multiverse theory, both of which postulate that all times exist concurrently and moving through time would not be skipping forward or backward linearly but moving from one already existing world (not constrained by time) to another. The most reasonable mode of travel between universes on the show, IMO (based on what I've seen) would be through wormholes (which, while not general referred to in most multiverse theories, does provide a means of travel which is not rejected in the theory). In this scenario, one would in effect, exist in two places at one time since the person entering the wormhole would only "appear" to be gone for an infinitesimally small fraction of a second to the people observing (ala the movie Contact).

But that's completely inconsistent with Rousseau's account of Jin disappearing when the flash happened.

This would also explain why "windows are only open for a finite period of time" (as Eloise stated)

The "windows are only open for a finite period of time" because the island moves. The room with pendulum tells them, "during the period of time between x & y, the island will be in this location. After time y, the island will move and we don't know where it will be." It has nothing to do with time travel. There has been nothing that says the island itself travels in time, it seems to be moving in space instead.

[bewitched]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

But that's completely inconsistent with Rousseau's account of Jin disappearing when the flash happened.

Not necessarily. Insofar as I know, the people moving through time on the island are only moving through the past. I have never read anything in this theory (although granted, my knowledge is limited to a layman's study) that says people in the past would experience a time/space traveler as a permanent fixture. In my understanding, all times/spaces already exist as do the people and things in them. Someone moving from their own current universe would only occupy another immutable universe for a fixed period of time before moving on to another, or back to their own universe. I also accept the idea that even if this is the overriding theory that they are using, they are not above tweaking it for their purposes.

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

The "windows are only open for a finite period of time" because the island moves. The room with pendulum tells them, "during the period of time between x & y, the island will be in this location. After time y, the island will move and we don't know where it will be." It has nothing to do with time travel. There has been nothing that says the island itself travels in time, it seems to be moving in space instead.

Parallel universes/multiverses allows for space/time travel. It is still, technically time travel because all times (and places in time) exist at once, including all possible current times. In this theory, the island's movement through space would be the island moving between many possible current times.

[bewitched]

As an aside, if you remember at the Orchid station, on the instruction tape, Marvin Candle said the station sat on a store of "exotic matter". Morris-Thorne wormholes are postulated to be held open (or stable) by a form of "exotic matter".