WTF Stories of the Week

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

I have no problem with him pulling the gun for caution, but to waste time on a lecture, etc. after he was informed about the situation was uncalled for. If he didn't believe him, he could have followed them into the hospital and witnessed it himself.

Have you watched the video? The one who was wasting time was Moats, who instead of, say, handing the office ID when asked, kept arguing. If he had simply followed the officer's instructions, it would have been over in a couple minutes, and I bet if he had said, "Could you make it quick," while handing over his ID as asked the officer would have done exactly that. But if you are going to refuse to cooperate at every step, then under what obligation is the officer to cooperate with you? There is nothing in that video that gives me sympathy for Moats. He is angry, aggressive, argumentative, and rude through the entire thing, when all he needed to do was listen to what he was being told instructed to do.

[Disneyphile]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

He is angry, aggressive, argumentative, and rude through the entire thing, when all he needed to do was listen to what he was being told instructed to do.

All traits of irrationality.

When faced with that kind of emergency/shock/grief, would you stay calm and do as you're told?

Have you been in that kind of situation?

I probably would have flat-out punched a cop at the time my mom was in hospice. I wouldn't have even noticed I was doing it.

And, I would have probably been condemned by people, because in our society, open grief is considered inappropriate, rather than a call for compassion, patience, and understanding.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

When faced with that kind of emergency/shock/grief, would you stay calm and do as you're told?

Yes, but I'm wired weirdly.

And, I would have probably been condemned by people, because in our society, open grief is considered inappropriate, rather than a call for compassion, patience, and understanding.

I don't know that I would particularly condemn you but I wouldn't condemn the police officer either for arresting you and you then being punished appropriately.

I have no problem with open grief. But just like with open anger, open love, open loathing, open macrame, the fact that you are experiencing a strong nearly uncontrollable emotion does not give you carte blanche to behave however you want without consequences.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

All traits of irrationality.

When faced with that kind of emergency/shock/grief, would you stay calm and do as you're told?

What I would do is irrelevant. IF I were to act like that in that situation, I would expect the officer to react exactly the same. An officer CANNOT take the word of someone acting irrationally at face value, that could put their life in danger. The fact that the man's decision to not cooperate stemmed from heightened emotion doesn't change the fact that an officer's correct course of action in that case is to treat someone not following his instructions as possibly dangerous. And at no time during the process did Moats give the officer any indication he was anything but still irrational.

Your "once the situation was clear, the officer should have calmed down" argument goes both ways. Once the initial moment of irrationality was over, Moats should have taken a breath and cooperated. Instead he chose to remain argumentative for 13 minutes. Plus, there is a big difference between someone who is distraught and not thinking clearly, vs. someone who is distraught and acting aggressively. An officer is going to proceed with far more caution with the latter.

[Snowflake]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Plus, there is a big difference between someone who is distraught and not thinking clearly, vs. someone who is distraught and acting aggressively. An officer is going to proceed with far more caution with the latter.

You're completely right there and had I viewed the video, it would have been apparent. Blame on both sides.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

I probably would have flat-out punched a cop at the time my mom was in hospice. I wouldn't have even noticed I was doing it.

And when you are subsequently arrested for assault on a police officer, would you expect to be let off?

[Disneyphile]

Originally Posted by katiesue

Nothing wrong with being grief stricken. But if you're so upset you can't think rationally, then you shouldn't be driving a car.

If you got a call that Madz was in taken to the hospital in critical condition, would you be calm and rational enough to call someone and ask them to drive you?

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Also the traits of someone strung out on any number of drugs.

I'm sorry. I missed that part of the article where they said he was under the influence. What drugs was he found with? I don't have time to read through it again.

If you would have punched a cop doing his job, I wouldn't give you a lot of sympathy. Your own grief is not an excuse to break the law and assault someone; ESPECIALLY law enforcement.

Again, what would you do if it were you in this situation?

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And when you are subsequently arrested for assault on a police officer, would you expect to be let off?

Nope. However, I would expect an officer to actually listen to me first and assist from there, but if he stood in my way.... When someone is grief-stricken, it is pretty damned apparent that they're not making it up as an excuse just to run red lights.

Sorry that I have compassion and a tendency to lean towards the side of someone who is losing/lost someone.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

Nope. However, I would expect an officer to actually listen to me first and assist from there. When someone is grief-stricken, it is pretty damned apparent that they're not making it up as an excuse just to run red lights.

The problem is, as Kevy pointed out, the difference between someone who is irrational because they're grief stricken, and irrational because of some other reason (e.g, on drugs, hates cops, is pissed at his wife for making him late to his appointment for a regular checkup) is not particularly apparent when someone is rushing out of a car, aggressively approaching you and yelling. A cop HAS to treat them all the same, there is no other option. And until someone calms down and is able to rationally explain what's going on, the cop treats them as an irrational person. They can't afford to differentiate between types of irrationality.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

Again, what would you do if it were you in this situation?

Again, it is irrelevant. Even if I did punch him, arresting me would be the correct response whether I agreed with it at the time.

Every time a red light was run this man was saying "my needs are worth risking the death of other people." Can I understand how a person could get to that state of mind? Sure. Do I have sympathy for it. Sure. There are tons of reasons someone might behave irrationally where I suspect you wouldn't view that as an excuse while understanding how they could get that way, I don't really see this as all that different.

Does that mean the correct response is "oh you poor thing, you go on your and we'll talk some other time"? No, not really.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

I'm sorry. I missed that part of the article where they said he was under the influence. What drugs was he found with? I don't have time to read through it again.

To clarify, I wasn't saying that the individual WAS on drugs; I meant that he was acting in a behavior that was VERY SIMILAR to someone who was on drugs. Hence my support for law enforcement.

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

Again, what would you do if it were you in this situation?

I would NOT run red lights and blown stop signs as recklessly as he did. Although I would probably speed.

When a cop car came up behind me with it's lights on, I would probably stop and explain THEN what was going on: not wait until I got to the hospital.

I have been in this type of situation, so I know what I would do. My concern for a dying loved one does not outweigh the safety of others.

Originally Posted by Disneyphile

Sorry that I have compassion and a tendency to lean towards the side of someone who is losing/lost someone.

With whom would your compassion lie if when he was was running one of those red lights he broadsided a car and somebody in that car died?