Lost!

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Oh, and it's going to wipe Ben's memory?! Seriously?! That's the best they could come up with? Fvck, they might as well have had Ben build 3PO while they were at it.

That was actually the only thing about the episode that really bothered me - the memory wipe.

I give props to the actress who plays Kate, because I think it was her finest work. She started out this show with hardly anything to recommend her besides her natural beauty. It was well worth it to see her scene with Claire's mother. And I thought it was a simple and good reason for Kate to return to the Island after so much protesting.

And, like or hate Ben, I still think the verdict is out. If it turns out the Island is the most important thing ever, and Ben has really done nothing but serve the Island, then blame the piece of **** Island. Heh. I think I'll reevaluate how I feel about most of the characters after the series ends.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

And, like or hate Ben, I still think the verdict is out. If it turns out the Island is the most important thing ever, and Ben has really done nothing but serve the Island, then blame the piece of **** Island. Heh.

It may turn out that way, but all the characters know at this point of decision is that he's the direct cause of most of their suffering and that little boy is going to grow up to be directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of many people they considered friends. And even if they could see clearly enough to realize that space-time continuity meant they could in no way PREVENT him from growing up that way, no amount of motherly instinct can make me believe that any of them would be able to overlook who that boy is enough to take an active role in saving his life. Unless the island is mind-controlling them, it's nonsense.

[SzczerbiakManiac]

Just to make the conversations easier to compare:

BEN: There's someone. someone here in Los Angeles. Let me take you to them and I'll show you the proof.
BEN: There's somebody. Somebody here in Los Angeles, let me take you to them.
BEN: There's someone. Someone here in Los Angeles. Let me take you to them.

SUN: Someone? Who?
SUN: Who?
SUN: Who?

BEN: The same person that's gonna show us how to get back to the Island.
BEN: The same person that's going to show us how to get back to the island
BEN: The same person that's going to show us how to get back to the island.

KATE: [Standing behind Ben] Is that what this is about? [Walks toward Jack.] You knew about this.
KATE: So that's what this is about? This is insane. You are all crazy.
KATE: [to Jack] Is that what this is about? You knew about this?

JACK: No. No I was go...
JACK: No. No. I was…

KATE: And that's why you were pretending to care about Aaron to convince me to go back there! [Points toward her car.]
KATE: [interrupts] And that is why you were pretending to care about Aaron? To convince me to go back there?

JACK: I wasn't pretending anything.
JACK: I wasn't pretending anything.

KATE: [Backing towards her car] This is insane. You guys are crazy.
KATE: This is insane. You guys are crazy.

JACK: [Approaches Kate] Kate.
JACK: Kate.

KATE: [Sharply] Jack! Don't. [Opens her car door and climbs in.]
KATE: Jack! Don't!

BEN: Sayid.[nervously] Where are you going?
BEN: Sayid, where are you going?

SAYID: [Stops and turns toward Ben] I don't want any part of this. [Turns toward Jack] And if I see you [points to Ben] or him again it will be extremely unpleasant for all of us.
SAYID: I don't want any part of this. [points to Ben] If I see you again it'll be extremely unpleasant for us both.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Back in the days of actual film editing, a mistake like the wrong-side-of-chest gunshot would have been due to a flipped piece of film. Is that even an issue anymore?

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

It may turn out that way, but all the characters know at this point of decision is that he's the direct cause of most of their suffering and that little boy is going to grow up to be directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of many people they considered friends. And even if they could see clearly enough to realize that space-time continuity meant they could in no way PREVENT him from growing up that way, no amount of motherly instinct can make me believe that any of them would be able to overlook who that boy is enough to take an active role in saving his life. Unless the island is mind-controlling them, it's nonsense.

I don't know. Conscience is a funny thing. I believe that one of them was capable of making a decision to kill a child in the name of Greater Good. And I can see on of them capable of making a decision to see an injured child and ignore the man that child becomes. Both are totally believable to me. I bought Sayid's reaction. I bought Jack's. And I bought Kate, Juliette and Sawyer's reactions.

I rather like that Sayid thought he was preventing something but instead is directly responsible for making Ben the person he turns out to be.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by SzczerbiakManiac

Just to make the conversations easier to compare:

BEN: There's someone. someone here in Los Angeles. Let me take you to them and I'll show you the proof.
BEN: There's somebody. Somebody here in Los Angeles, let me take you to them.
BEN: There's someone. Someone here in Los Angeles. Let me take you to them.

SUN: Someone? Who?
SUN: Who?
SUN: Who?

BEN: The same person that's gonna show us how to get back to the Island.
BEN: The same person that's going to show us how to get back to the island
BEN: The same person that's going to show us how to get back to the island.

KATE: [Standing behind Ben] Is that what this is about? [Walks toward Jack.] You knew about this.
KATE: So that's what this is about? This is insane. You are all crazy.
KATE: [to Jack] Is that what this is about? You knew about this?

JACK: No. No I was go...
JACK: No. No. I was…

KATE: And that's why you were pretending to care about Aaron to convince me to go back there! [Points toward her car.]
KATE: [interrupts] And that is why you were pretending to care about Aaron? To convince me to go back there?

JACK: I wasn't pretending anything.
JACK: I wasn't pretending anything.

KATE: [Backing towards her car] This is insane. You guys are crazy.
KATE: This is insane. You guys are crazy.

JACK: [Approaches Kate] Kate.
JACK: Kate.

KATE: [Sharply] Jack! Don't. [Opens her car door and climbs in.]
KATE: Jack! Don't!

BEN: Sayid.[nervously] Where are you going?
BEN: Sayid, where are you going?

SAYID: [Stops and turns toward Ben] I don't want any part of this. [Turns toward Jack] And if I see you [points to Ben] or him again it will be extremely unpleasant for all of us.
SAYID: I don't want any part of this. [points to Ben] If I see you again it'll be extremely unpleasant for us both.

I can't wait to see if that visit this scene again.....it'd be nice if it was exactly the same as one of the above(to prove once and for all that it's just lazy editing) or if it's blatently different in some way(so that even the casual viewer can see that something has changed).

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Back in the days of actual film editing, a mistake like the wrong-side-of-chest gunshot would have been due to a flipped piece of film. Is that even an issue anymore?

Actually, much more an issue now than bevore. You couldn't really flop a piece of film because the two sides of a strip are not the same and it can really only be projected one way. However, now with digital editing it's easy to flop a shot with the push of a button. That was actually the first thing I checked in those stills from the episode, and while it's not entirely conclusive, I don't think any flopping happened. The second shot shows Ben with an abrasion on the right side of his face (his right), which I think was there before being shot, from to his father. In the first still, that abrasion isn't visible, but that side of his face is in darkness. It doesn't seem to be on the other side. Also the wound in the second still isn't just on the wrong side, but is farther removed from the center of his chest. I think it was just misplaced, for whatever reason.

[Pirate Bill]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

I rather like that Sayid thought he was preventing something but instead is directly responsible for making Ben the person he turns out to be.

As are Jack, Kate, Juliette, and Sawyer. If Jack had operated on Ben then maybe he would have grown up to hate the hostiles instead of join them. After all, one of them tried to kill him but he was saved by a member of Dharma. Instead, Jack doesn't operate (was that what he was brought back to do but refused his calling?) and Kate et al take him to the hostiles where he is cured, memory wiped, innocence lost. Which is what was supposed to happen because you can't change the future.

[sleepyjeff]

More thoughts on What happened happened:

1) Back a season or two there was an episode(Cabin fever I think) in which Richard presented a very young John Locke a test.....one of the items in the test was a comic book(The mystery tales #40). This was no make believe prop; the comic actually does exsist and the very last story in the book is about a bridge collapse on March 31st. The engineer wishes he could go back in time to stop the collapse....the next day he finds out that the collapse hasn't happened...yet. In the end he does stop the bridge from collapsing. The title of the story is March has 32 days......WHH aired on April 1st(March 32nd)

2) Everytime Jack crashes on the Island Ben needs an operation...what's up with that

3) Did Kate have someone watching Aaron while he slept two doors away? Seems kind of odd to almost lose your son in a grocery store one minute and then leave him alone in a hotel room the next

4) When Juliet decided to give Ben up to the others it looked almost like the idea came to her in a short sort of trance......could she have been given some sort of information from the past/future like Daniel gave to Desmond???

[sleepyjeff]

5) Which came first, the chicken or the egg?.................It can be said that the reason Ben went to such extraordinary lengths(kidnapping, mind games, imprisonment, etc) to get Jack to operate on his tumor was that Ben knew, way back in 1977, that Jack refused to operate on himself........but........the main reason Jack refused to operate on Ben was because of those very same extraordinary lengths